tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post1524114909434937070..comments2024-03-17T09:14:13.950+00:00Comments on John Wells’s phonetic blog: contrastive accent on zeroJohn Wellshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13684304410735867148noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-20795352689603985552020-07-08T21:49:23.431+01:002020-07-08T21:49:23.431+01:00Haloo pak^^
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I suppose it ceases to be unsettling if you ...Alan<br /><br />I suppose it ceases to be unsettling if you think of it as two words. Personally, I don't.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-5411124262185513262012-06-11T14:04:58.026+01:002012-06-11T14:04:58.026+01:00Not sure about AmE inquiry: given that BrE enquiry...Not sure about AmE <i>inquiry</i>: given that BrE <i>enquiry</i> and <i>inquiry</i> have closely related meanings, it doesn't seem so very unsettling that they might use the same spelling for both.Alanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10627322349797202893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-70334738092100617422012-06-11T13:57:30.020+01:002012-06-11T13:57:30.020+01:00A version of this I saw (at a Jewish Society stall...A version of this I saw (at a Jewish Society stall in a student societies fair) was "Be Jewish. Not just Jew-ish". Clearly to be read out with the same basic intonation.Alanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10627322349797202893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-49229207957035797672012-06-11T13:53:15.296+01:002012-06-11T13:53:15.296+01:00Here's a link for the individual verse
(also ...Here's a link for the individual <a href="http://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/~fisher/tmpdir/gnt/061202.gif" rel="nofollow">verse</a><br /><br />(also typo above: should be "emphasise" obviously)Alanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10627322349797202893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-19605544920664468972012-06-11T13:49:27.953+01:002012-06-11T13:49:27.953+01:00I rather disagree about it being opaque, to be hon...I rather disagree about it being opaque, to be honest. Still, it may not really be worth changing the intonation in order to emphase the contrast when it appears to be an artefact of the English translation without an obvious such play on words in the <a href="http://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/~fisher/cgi-bin/gnt?id=0612" rel="nofollow">original Greek</a>.<br /><br />As regards the two schools: I remember once Tony Blair, while PM, doing a Bible reading with lots of emphasis, and being criticised for it (I felt unfairly, but I forget who by) for having read it "as if it was a party-political broadcast".Alanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10627322349797202893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-39651949738518375202012-06-11T11:42:01.376+01:002012-06-11T11:42:01.376+01:00JHJ
The spelling is not arbitrary. More to the po...JHJ<br /><br />The spelling is not arbitrary. More to the point, for many of us it is not <b>felt</b> to be arbitrary. <br /><br />We feel that <i>employment</i> belongs in the same class as <i>emphasis, embolism, embark</i> and the wider class which also includes <i>enforce, entail, engage, entrance (ˈɛntrn̩s), entrance (ɪnˈtræns), enzyme</i>. <br /><br />Of course this feeling is maintained by — perhaps even dependant on— the spelling. But it is for us a psychological reality and applicable to a general class, not to just one isolated word.<br /><br />That's why I personally find the American spelling <i>inquiry</i> rather unsettling. It feels as if a different prefix has been substituted.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-38339020270841522882012-06-11T08:53:36.888+01:002012-06-11T08:53:36.888+01:00Well, maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I was un...Well, maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I was under the impression that the weak form of vowels only appear when unstressed, so that a stressed vowel could only have a non-weak form. But apparently (cf. John's comment) there's also a strong ɪ.Kilian Hekhuishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01084720179158650652noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-22860808800877099422012-06-11T08:23:39.431+01:002012-06-11T08:23:39.431+01:00Why wouldn't he have a lexicalised ɪ? I think...Why wouldn't he have a lexicalised <b>ɪ</b>? I think the only reason why an RP speaker would have anything else would be the spelling.JHJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03257258313943639485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-26696914308155483032012-06-10T20:04:41.823+01:002012-06-10T20:04:41.823+01:00As I asked above, does this mean he has a lexicali...As I asked above, does this mean he has a lexicalized ɪ?Kilian Hekhuishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01084720179158650652noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-75947609367546164462012-06-10T17:11:34.450+01:002012-06-10T17:11:34.450+01:00By the falling intonation nucleus on that syllable...By the falling intonation nucleus on that syllable. Perhaps I should have said he converted weak <b>ɪ</b> into strong <b>ɪ</b>. The point is, he retained <b>ɪ</b>, he didn't switch to <b>e</b> as in <i>empathy, embolism</i>.John Wellshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13684304410735867148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-42539388832704141242012-06-10T12:27:59.661+01:002012-06-10T12:27:59.661+01:00Sorry, I mean "How WERE YOU ABLE TO perceive ...Sorry, I mean "How WERE YOU ABLE TO perceive it...?"Beatrice Portinarihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13626472955669713053noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-15256879355446916372012-06-10T12:23:54.728+01:002012-06-10T12:23:54.728+01:00"And, interestingly, he didn’t strengthen the..."And, interestingly, he didn’t strengthen the vowel but kept it as weak ɪ."<br />So how could you perceive it as an accented item?Beatrice Portinarihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13626472955669713053noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-56110458590103003772012-06-09T09:36:36.947+01:002012-06-09T09:36:36.947+01:00What about -ed, phonetically just [t]?
I once had...<i>What about -ed, phonetically just [t]?</i><br /><br />I once had to say “I didn't say aCE, I said eighT”. (And that was in Ireland, where syllable-coda /t/ is often a fricative.) I just pronounced the syllables normally while holding up eight fingers, but I don't know what I could have done if they couldn't see me (e.g. if I had been on the telephone).<br /><br />And I once wanted to reply to “Good luck for your assignment” with “Good luck to YOU for YOUR assignmentS” -- I just prolonged the /s/ extra long.army1987https://www.blogger.com/profile/01166052755101226806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-66711103365883399512012-06-09T05:54:31.085+01:002012-06-09T05:54:31.085+01:00And "I'm not a JEW, I'm just Jew-ISH&...And "I'm not a JEW, I'm just Jew-ISH" (Brad Greenberg).John Cowanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452247999156925669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-13278873453138145222012-06-09T05:15:38.372+01:002012-06-09T05:15:38.372+01:00i don't have clear intuitions about many of th...i don't have clear intuitions about many of these; for instance with conformed/transformed, i would probably find either/any of the stress possibilities fine, and i'm not sure which i'd use.<br /><br />interestingly, though, to your question about clean/cleaner, i had an immediate gut reaction that yes, i could and probably would say "not CLEAN, just cleanER." (i'm a 20-something American.) on a hunch, a few Google searches easily yielded the following:<br /><br /> "clean coal" is not clean, just cleanER. <br /><br />not BIG just bigGER than your top half<br /><br />being run by a smaller company (not small, just smallER) would be a huge benefit to the brand<br /><br />it's not thin... Just thinnERc.c.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17707704571448468226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-48253600583877127582012-06-08T20:46:39.378+01:002012-06-08T20:46:39.378+01:00I'd stress like this:
"SHE wasn't at...I'd stress like this:<br /><br />"SHE wasn't attacking,| she was BEing attacked."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-79115276844279004002012-06-08T20:00:57.805+01:002012-06-08T20:00:57.805+01:00Bolinger in his paper "Contrastive accent and...Bolinger in his paper "Contrastive accent and contrastive stress" deals with this issue a bit more systematically. Here is the pdf version: http://goo.gl/DeFilAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-86501137113857318312012-06-08T18:45:04.182+01:002012-06-08T18:45:04.182+01:00Sometimes contrastive focus can show up even when ...Sometimes contrastive focus can show up even when there are no actual morphemes to contrast. U.S. tire manufacturer B. F. Goodrich, finding that there was customer confusion between their products and those of their larger competitor, ran ads with the tagline "Not GoodYEAR, GoodRICH." (They also ran ads referring to the famous Goodyear blimp: "See that blimp up in the sky? <i>We're the other guys!</i>")John Cowanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452247999156925669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-17132739849548712742012-06-08T12:02:43.723+01:002012-06-08T12:02:43.723+01:00The most recent Prime Minister’s Questions I can f...The most recent Prime Minister’s Questions I can find on-line is the one from 23 May (http://www.parliament.uk/business/news/2012/may/prime-ministers-questions-23-may-2012/), but scanning through it I can't find the passage contrasting employment and unemployment (though it seems the Questions contain a wealth of studying material on focus).Kilian Hekhuishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01084720179158650652noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-48527169133730220742012-06-08T11:17:36.806+01:002012-06-08T11:17:36.806+01:00I'm not surprised by the treatment of the bibl...I'm not surprised by the treatment of the bible reading. I suppose there are two schools - drone it out without any thought to the meaning, or read it with the meaning in mind and lots of emphasis. Both could be objected to depending on what you're used to.<br /><br />This extract seems particularly opaque and encourages a mechanical reading.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-48224622203075660152012-06-08T11:17:13.824+01:002012-06-08T11:17:13.824+01:00"And, interestingly, he didn’t strengthen the..."And, interestingly, he didn’t strengthen the vowel but kept it as weak ɪ." - Would this mean that he has lexicalized the weak ɪ?Kilian Hekhuishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01084720179158650652noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-43126001325136478132012-06-08T10:27:11.900+01:002012-06-08T10:27:11.900+01:00The problem with stressing con is that conformed c...The problem with stressing <b><i>con</i></b> is that <i>conformed</i> carries no semantic association with other words in <i>con-</i>, at least not for me.<br /><br />To bring out the contrast, I'd consider reading <i>conformed</i> with two full stresses, as if it were two words.<br /><br />I think <i>UNemployment | EMployment</i> actually worked, though in theory it shouldn't have. It works for me because <i>EMployment</i> unambiguously communicates the contrast, and because of what I've just heard, I'm fully aware what the contrast is with.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.com