tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post162114051197600148..comments2024-03-17T09:14:13.950+00:00Comments on John Wells’s phonetic blog: a cat that malts?John Wellshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13684304410735867148noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-35164567083716804352010-10-04T10:25:27.469+01:002010-10-04T10:25:27.469+01:00This phenomenon is similar to a prelateral merger ...This phenomenon is similar to a prelateral merger occurring in Australia (maybe only in Melbourne) between "el" and "al". I've done a preliminary investigation into the subject - see the paper by Loakes, Hajek and Fletcher at:<br /><br />http://www.als.asn.au/proceedings/als2009.html<br /><br />We're also working on a more detailed investigation into this at the moment.<br /><br />There are some nice audio examples here:<br /><br />http://clas.mq.edu.au/australian-voices/regional-accents<br /><br />Regarding other prelateral vowels - I'm also from Melbourne and along with "salary"-"celery" I also pronounce "malt"-"moult" exactly the same way, but not "doll"-"dole".Debbie Loakesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-56197450005863732462010-09-13T10:58:05.604+01:002010-09-13T10:58:05.604+01:00In the US many people have the BALD/BOLD merger.
A...In the US many people have the BALD/BOLD merger.<br />According to the MW's Learner's dictionary:<br /><br />bald /ˈbɑ:ld/<br />http://www.learnersdictionary.com/search/bald<br /><br />bold /ˈboʊld/ <br />http://www.learnersdictionary.com/search/boldPianomanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15648008088325003262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-11148609663341087922010-09-12T18:19:31.804+01:002010-09-12T18:19:31.804+01:00I'm from Australia (Melbourne) and I pronounce...I'm from Australia (Melbourne) and I pronounce malt and moult the same way (to rhyme with salt, bolt, fault, etc). I also pronounce doll and dole (as a noun) the same way.moulting australiannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-66536619600840275002010-09-12T11:35:16.610+01:002010-09-12T11:35:16.610+01:00I hypothesized a widespread merger between 'mo...I hypothesized a widespread merger between 'moult' and 'malt' back in February: http://phonetic-blog.blogspot.com/2010/02/scolding-water.html?showComment=1266331392295-c101363268149021855 If I too had had the initiative to google "malting dog" or something I would have been vindicated there and then. I was extrapolating from the mergers between 'scold' and 'scald', 'bold' and 'bald' etc., which I have been observing for over 30 years. But I did just google my memory for this statement in a later post on that thread, which was generating a very interesting discussion the last time round:<br /><br />Thus I never seem to see anything 'baldly' stated these days. It always seems to be 'boldly' stated, even when that doesn't seem appropriate. That may be an unduly bold statement, but for the sake of argument I am quite happy to baldly go where no man has gone before, and baldly state that in the overall system of SBE the distinction is dead and buried, but perhaps not yet decomposed.<br /><br />Now that Anon has galvanized me into googling Google, I see it likewise tries to redirect searches with 'baldly' in such contexts to 'boldly', but more specific searches make it obvious that the merger is well established, at any rate in the UK, if one discounts the puns and the literate posters.mallambhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07086916400059545681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-83582378987392364602010-09-11T11:23:00.586+01:002010-09-11T11:23:00.586+01:00Professor Wells, I think many non-expert speakers—...Professor Wells, I think many non-expert speakers—including me—who use the pre-dark-l allophone of the GOAT vowel have difficulty distinguishing between this vowel and the LOT vowel, even though they don’t merge the two phonetically. <br /><br />To non-experts, the pre-dark-l allophone of GOAT seems more like a variation of the LOT vowel than of the GOAT vowel; before I learned about phonetics, I was sure that, despite what the dictionary said, I used the LOT vowel in words such as “cold”. These days I still have to think very carefully to determine which sound I use in a given word. <br /><br />Furthermore, for me and others, I think the pre-dark-l allophone of the GOAT vowel can readily lose its second target in fairly rapid speech. Note that I don’t have l-vocalisation. <br /><br />I recall recently watching a TV show here in Australia in which an actor affecting an American accent made the mistake of using the LOT vowel instead of the GOAT vowel in a word like “told” or “fold” (I can’t remember the exact word). The error stuck out like a sore thumb, since the two sounds are very distinct in General American, but it does point to uncertainty about these sounds among Australian speakers.Luke Elfordnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-75765753384435649752010-09-11T08:22:19.199+01:002010-09-11T08:22:19.199+01:00Re Australia, I don't think that can be true. ...Re Australia, I don't think that can be true. My Macquarie Dict. transcribes <i>malt</i> as <b>mɔlt, mɒlt</b> but <i>moult</i> as <b>moʊlt</b>.John Wellshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13684304410735867148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-52866124360604612432010-09-11T07:11:35.216+01:002010-09-11T07:11:35.216+01:00As far as I can tell, they're pronounced the s...As far as I can tell, they're pronounced the same here in Australia.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-15196630590970065002010-09-10T20:02:59.348+01:002010-09-10T20:02:59.348+01:00David, thanks very much for your comments on my bl...David, thanks very much for your comments on my blog!Alex Rotatorihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15221253493502707131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-8116239411884929422010-09-10T19:41:30.346+01:002010-09-10T19:41:30.346+01:00There must be several people who pronounce them th...There must be several people who pronounce them the same way as you see them spelled the wrong way around. Google search even completes the phrase "malting dog" if you start to type it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-39289278979797684712010-09-10T19:26:58.144+01:002010-09-10T19:26:58.144+01:00Alex
I've found the cause of the problem. You...Alex<br /><br />I've found the cause of the problem. Your punctuation is too good! <br /><br />The full stop at the end of the sentence is a trap for the copy-and-paster.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-45552387422093750422010-09-10T19:19:16.888+01:002010-09-10T19:19:16.888+01:00Alex
Blogspot says that the page doesn't exis...Alex<br /><br /><b>Blogspot</b> says that the page doesn't exist.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-6001180983827342042010-09-10T15:01:28.951+01:002010-09-10T15:01:28.951+01:00It's now 15.00 British Summer Time and the car...It's now 15.00 British Summer Time and the cartoon has already been altered to <i>When your cat is <b>shedding</b></i>.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-51788078945910054952010-09-10T10:32:13.065+01:002010-09-10T10:32:13.065+01:00Sheffield, accent otherwise "near RP" in...Sheffield, accent otherwise "near RP" in the AofE sense (e.g. trap-bath unsplit but foot-strut split).JHJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03257258313943639485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-59582079004716829172010-09-10T10:29:07.570+01:002010-09-10T10:29:07.570+01:00John, I can offer you a similar - though less stri...John, I can offer you a similar - though less striking - example of the topic you're discussing today here: http://alex-ateachersthoughts.blogspot.com/2010/06/solstice.html.Alex Rotatorihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15221253493502707131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-58075639966016079082010-09-10T10:28:01.485+01:002010-09-10T10:28:01.485+01:00So tell us more about where you ARE from. (All dat...So tell us more about where you ARE from. (All data welcome.)John Wellshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13684304410735867148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-37328794985082103542010-09-10T09:20:07.763+01:002010-09-10T09:20:07.763+01:00I have the situation described in your last paragr...I have the situation described in your last paragraph (LOT merged into GOAT before dark /l/, no THOUGHT in <i>salt</i> etc., so that <i>malt</i> and <i>moult</i> are the same) except that I'm not a south-easterner.JHJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03257258313943639485noreply@blogger.com