tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post3209916704242159296..comments2024-03-17T09:14:13.950+00:00Comments on John Wells’s phonetic blog: LaocoönJohn Wellshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13684304410735867148noreply@blogger.comBlogger51125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-39393814694843475872020-08-06T13:49:15.533+01:002020-08-06T13:49:15.533+01:00ติดตาผลบอล ตามทีเด็ด ข่าวฟุตบอล เมสซี่ อยากอยู่ ไป...ติดตาผลบอล ตามทีเด็ด ข่าวฟุตบอล<a href="https://fbtv99.blogspot.com/2020/08/blog-post_6.html" rel="nofollow"> เมสซี่ อยากอยู่ ไปจนแขวนสตั๊ด</a>มโน เอาเองhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07048743272464383784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-12076024417867112572010-12-24T16:45:41.954+00:002010-12-24T16:45:41.954+00:00As a footnote to the discussion on control charact...As a footnote to the discussion on control characters above, I finally decided to install Firefox on this machine (I've used it on others but not on this one), and I'm delighted to say that David Crosbie's posts now display correctly, with no little squares or spurious spaces appearing. Thunderbird also displays them correctly, so full marks to Mozilla!Steve Doerrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11410868047916610730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-86229137246154353242010-12-19T04:16:41.180+00:002010-12-19T04:16:41.180+00:00Phil, I am by no means offended, but I hate travel...Phil, I am by no means offended, but I hate traveling, so I'm unlikely to go to your home town. That's why I try to say things like "I have not heard Americans say ..." rather than "Americans don't say ..."John Cowanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452247999156925669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-82431055713015965382010-12-17T10:12:54.532+00:002010-12-17T10:12:54.532+00:00Going back to Laocoön, it occurred to me yesterday...Going back to <em>Laocoön</em>, it occurred to me yesterday that we're all pronouncing it wrong: surely, by the hiatus rule, the stressed vowel should be lengthened in English, giving <strong>leɪˈəʊkəʊɒn</strong> / <strong>leɪˈoʊkoʊɑn</strong> ?Steve Doerrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11410868047916610730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-31400289914231214992010-12-15T20:40:02.146+00:002010-12-15T20:40:02.146+00:00@ John Cowan: "I have never heard any America...@ John Cowan: "I have never heard any American of whatever age or level of education say bona fide(s) or vice versa with four syllables, and I would think it more than unusual." Really? I've never heard <em>bona fide</em> with four syllables either, but you've never heard vice versa with four syllables? I mean no offense when I say this, but you should travel around our great country a bit more. People where I'm from say vice versa with four syllables quite frequently. It may even be the more common pronunciation in my hometown. It isn't the one I use and I find it to be really annoying, but you do hear it a lot where I'm from. We do live in a gigantic country though, so I understand if you haven't been to my neck of the woods before.Philnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-44057468436640944862010-12-14T23:11:57.378+00:002010-12-14T23:11:57.378+00:00Interestingly, my 1960s (American) Collier's E...Interestingly, my 1960s (American) <em>Collier's Encyclopedia</em> gives the pronunciation as <strong>leɑ′kəwɑn</strong>.Steve Doerrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11410868047916610730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-53239099137201750782010-12-14T21:26:30.614+00:002010-12-14T21:26:30.614+00:00David Crosbie said...
> Do you have the latest...David Crosbie said...<br /><br />> Do you have the latest Safari? It seems to be version 5.0.3. for both platforms.<br /><br />5.0.3 (7533.19.4)Steve Doerrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11410868047916610730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-63387511633353391992010-12-14T19:20:37.667+00:002010-12-14T19:20:37.667+00:00John C
I know all that, and I said nothing to the ...John C<br />I know all that, and I said nothing to the contrary. I am not resisting anything. Please don't lecture me. I share John W's preference for ˈvaɪsɪ ˈvəːsə (and however irrationally, his apparent dislike for vaɪs ˈvəːsə), and have granted that this is probably merely because of my age. So I observed that the form we prefer can hardly survive in a world in which pubes and bona fides have undergone the developments that they have. For 'pubes' has indeed become pjuːbz with a singular 'pube', of course alongside the technical usage, which was irrelevant to the (admittedly facetious) point I was making. <br /><br />I was assuming that a similar parallel development had happened with 'bona fides', with the technical usage of 'bona fides' nom sing and 'bona fide' abl sing being more likely to preserve what you call the 'archaisms', but you tell me this is not so for Americans. In the UK it is more a matter of the trisyllabic pronunciations not really having caught on. As I said, JCW's LPD, which is usually scrupulous in giving American pronunciations doesn't give 'faɪdz' and 'faɪd' for either UK or US. I did point out that the pronunciation /faɪd/ is there, apparently by accident, as the reader for the US sound file uses it. However the US sound file for 'bona fides' has ˈfaɪdiːz, where the transcription gives the options ˈfaɪd iːz ˈfiːd eɪz, -eɪs for both UK and US. Perhaps you had better make these representations to JCW.mallambhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07086916400059545681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-17963609247105251962010-12-14T17:49:36.097+00:002010-12-14T17:49:36.097+00:00Steve
No, not on Windows (but it does on my iPhon...Steve<br /><br /><i>No, not on Windows (but it does on my iPhone). </i><br /><br />Apple notify Apple users of upgrades, but perhaps not Windows users. Do you have the latest Safari? It seems to be version 5.0.3. for both platforms.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-15714918793690813362010-12-14T15:22:40.453+00:002010-12-14T15:22:40.453+00:00Mallamb: Pube and pubis are not synonymous: the fo...Mallamb: <i>Pube</i> and <i>pubis</i> are not synonymous: the former is a clipping of <i>pubic hair</i> in the sense of an individual hair. Their plural forms are both spelled <i>pubes</i>, but pronounced differently; they also belong to different registers.<br /><br />I have never heard any American of whatever age or level of education say <i>bona fide(s)</i> or <i>vice versa</i> with four syllables, and I would think it more than unusual. My father was a lawyer with six academic degrees — during the Depression, education was cheap and jobs rare — born in 1904; if anyone would have used these archaisms it would have been him, and he didn't.<br /><br />Note that the adjective <i>bona fide</i>, the Latin ablative, has added the new meaning 'genuine' to the original meaning 'good-faith', and the mass noun <i>bona fides</i> has similarly added the meaning 'the fact of being who or what one is', as in <i>a bona fide Southerner</i>, <i>his bona fides as a Southerner</i>. These new meanings have in turn spawned the novel count noun <i>bona fide</i> 'evidence/proof/credential of being who or what one is', with the regular plural <i>bona fides</i>. All perfectly normal semantic change, and nothing to resist here.John Cowanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452247999156925669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-39237295142404656042010-12-14T13:34:32.636+00:002010-12-14T13:34:32.636+00:00David Crosbie said...
> Steve
>It works f...David Crosbie said... <br /><br />> Steve<br /><br />>It works for me in Safari. Doesn't my SECOND FIX look right in your system?<br /><br />No, not on Windows (but it does on my iPhone). Maybe I'm missing a font?Steve Doerrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11410868047916610730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-13475300479933900752010-12-14T11:39:33.827+00:002010-12-14T11:39:33.827+00:00Mallamb
I've twice tried your Unicode 200D wi...Mallamb<br /><br />I've twice tried your Unicode 200D with no success.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-65133963324540612492010-12-14T11:36:55.071+00:002010-12-14T11:36:55.071+00:00This comment has been removed by the author.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-10192177049950832332010-12-14T11:35:10.185+00:002010-12-14T11:35:10.185+00:00This comment has been removed by the author.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-77611621037382496952010-12-14T10:53:42.855+00:002010-12-14T10:53:42.855+00:00Steve
It works for me in Safari. Doesn't my S...Steve<br /><br />It works for me in Safari. Doesn't my SECOND FIX look right in your system?<br /><br />It also looks OK in Firefox, but the font size is such that there's no problem with Mallamb's original.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-45171513832988488202010-12-14T10:49:29.169+00:002010-12-14T10:49:29.169+00:00I think what I used to use was the less exotic U+2...I think what I used to use was the less exotic U+200D ("Zero-width joiner"), but that probably doesn't work these days either. Whatever fix I used it definitely used to work on some earlier version of IE, so some of you indefatigable people might like to keep experimenting.mallambhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07086916400059545681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-21764307853786828202010-12-14T09:12:19.529+00:002010-12-14T09:12:19.529+00:00David Crosbie said...
> Unicode 2060 WORD JOIN...David Crosbie said...<br /><br />> Unicode 2060 WORD JOINER<br /><br />That should work, but doesn't in any of the browsers I've tried: Chrome and Safari display a square, and IE inserts a space. Another one that should work, but probably doesn't, is <br />U+FEFF zero width no-break space.Steve Doerrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11410868047916610730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-78620133834077215172010-12-14T01:08:29.946+00:002010-12-14T01:08:29.946+00:00Steve
If you're in the UK, click here and sta...Steve<br /><br />If you're in the UK, click <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00wwbz3/Have_I_Got_a_Bit_More_News_for_You_Series_40_Episode_9/" rel="nofollow">here</a> and start play from 31.55.<br /><br />If you can't play it, the other choices were Brian Blessed, Kay Burley and Homer Simpson.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-14400986060087998772010-12-14T00:37:44.142+00:002010-12-14T00:37:44.142+00:00My feeling about /leɪˈɒkəʊɒn/ (=/leɪˈɑːkoʊɑːn/) ...My feeling about /leɪˈɒkəʊɒn/ (=/leɪˈɑːkoʊɑːn/) is that it is a bit difficult to say, because of the /oʊV/ hanging on after the primary stress - I feel a strong urge to turn the /oʊ/ into a /u/.<br /><br />...but regardless, in Catonian fashion, I must take the opportunity once again to decry the pronunciation of 'Menelaus' as [ˌmɛnəˈlaʊs] in "Troy", and of 'Leonidas' as [ˌliːəˈnaɪdəs] in "300". How you can spend millions of dollars to make a movie without even bothering to find the correct pronunciation of your major characters is beyond me.Lazar Taxonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13221219358689771815noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-37753527101682457972010-12-14T00:05:41.254+00:002010-12-14T00:05:41.254+00:00Steve Doerr
What were the other choices: Nausicaä...Steve Doerr<br /><br /><i>What were the other choices: Nausicaä and Pasiphaë by any chance?</i><br /><br />The other three throttled or tried to throttle someone — unlike Lacoön, who was throttled.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-54094055856749393822010-12-14T00:00:38.201+00:002010-12-14T00:00:38.201+00:00My fix of the line-breaking worked with Mallamb...My fix of the line-breaking worked with Mallamb's sentence, but I didn't like the spacing. So I'm trying again with<br /><br />Unicode 2060 WORD JOINER<br />Unicode 02C8 MODIFIER LETTER VERTICAL LINE<br /><br />Here are the three versions for comparison<br /><br />ORIGINAL<br />Neither is the reason that the cognoscenti say leɪˈɒkəʊɒn boring.<br /><br />FIRST FIX<br />Neither is the reason that the cognoscenti say leɪ ̍ɒkəʊɒn boring.<br /><br />SECOND FIX<br />Neither is the reason that the cognoscenti say leɪˈɒkəʊɒn boring.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-70586760647904773592010-12-13T23:53:54.672+00:002010-12-13T23:53:54.672+00:00Gassalasca said...
> In Serbian, interestingly...Gassalasca said...<br /><br />> In Serbian, interestingly, he's Laokont /'laokont/.<br /><br /><br />And in Italian <em>Laocoonte</em> <strong>laokoˈonte</strong>.Steve Doerrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11410868047916610730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-15851012651381809212010-12-13T23:50:35.318+00:002010-12-13T23:50:35.318+00:00John Wells said...
> an odd-man-out question in...John Wells said...<br />> an odd-man-out question in which one of the candidates was Laocoön. <br /><br />What were the other choices: Nausicaä and Pasiphaë by any chance?Steve Doerrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11410868047916610730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-32032945059035777752010-12-13T22:24:30.370+00:002010-12-13T22:24:30.370+00:00Thank you, John. I did follow your link, but '...Thank you, John. I did follow your link, but 'specials' didn't help, I'm afraid.mallambhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07086916400059545681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-37989415085591069842010-12-13T21:59:15.987+00:002010-12-13T21:59:15.987+00:00So WHY does he say "simples"?
I suppose ...<i>So WHY does he say "simples"?</i><br />I suppose to signal the fact that he is Russian and has a rather rudimentary grasp of English grammar. <br />I quote: My name is Aleksandr, founder of comparethemeerkat.com. Please enjoy use of my site. It has been <b>specials</b> designed for easy way of comparing meerkats. Simples!John Wellshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13684304410735867148noreply@blogger.com