tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post378454840347126158..comments2024-03-17T09:14:13.950+00:00Comments on John Wells’s phonetic blog: no (audible) releaseJohn Wellshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13684304410735867148noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-61858870751763951492019-05-19T08:51:13.749+01:002019-05-19T08:51:13.749+01:00I'm not sure if you can see this comment...but...I'm not sure if you can see this comment...but could you pls. tell me the difference between [glottal stop]and [unreleased stop] in using? It seems in some situations they can replace each other, while in others they couldn't. Thx.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11940986442256693971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-92161036884493278492012-03-27T00:01:31.222+01:002012-03-27T00:01:31.222+01:00THANK YOU SO MUCH!THANK YOU SO MUCH!Gabrielahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12545628330835589160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-16868366648728425952012-03-24T18:41:42.163+00:002012-03-24T18:41:42.163+00:00(De)voicing and (non-)release are independent of o...(De)voicing and (non-)release are independent of one another. You can switch voicing off before or during the hold phase and then (in utterance-final position) fail to release. Or not, or not.John Wellshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13684304410735867148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-45590519780887764012012-03-21T14:40:14.945+00:002012-03-21T14:40:14.945+00:00Thank you so much for this blog!!! It's so enr...Thank you so much for this blog!!! It's so enriching. <br />I have a question. If a voiced plosive sound in final position is pronounced with a no audible release, wouldn't it be impossible to devoice the same sound as it is not released? In an allophonic transcription, what would you mark? Devoicing AND no audible release, or one of the options?<br />E.g: decided. /d/ final positionGabrielahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12545628330835589160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-66283801999095380572012-03-21T14:37:40.136+00:002012-03-21T14:37:40.136+00:00Thank you so much for this blog!!! It's so enr...Thank you so much for this blog!!! It's so enriching. <br />I have a question. If a voiced plosive sound in final position is pronounced with a no audible release, wouldn't it be impossible to devoice the same sound as it is not released? In an allophonic transcription, what would you mark? Devoicing AND no audible release, or one of the options?<br />E.g: decided. /d/ final positionGabrielahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12545628330835589160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-31237073335437474392012-03-14T20:36:37.991+00:002012-03-14T20:36:37.991+00:00If by "use a glottal release" you mean &...If by "use a glottal release" you mean "use a glottal stop (to mask the oral release)", then I don't believe any NS would use a glottal stop in <i>sudden</i>. Surely [ʔ] is an option for /t/ before [n], but never for /d/ in this or any other position. <br /><br />I regularly use the word <i>suddenly</i> to exemplify nasal release, since it would be very unusual to use oral release (giving [-dən-]) and impossible for a NS to use [ʔ]: the only likely pronunciation is nasally released [d].John Wellshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13684304410735867148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-24797406814991113962012-03-14T17:25:12.649+00:002012-03-14T17:25:12.649+00:00vp
I hear what you hear. I thought that's wha...vp<br /><br />I hear what you hear. I thought that's what j. mach wust was asking about.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-36797055968188092372012-03-14T17:21:21.655+00:002012-03-14T17:21:21.655+00:00Wjarek
The illusion of usual pronunciation wouldn...Wjarek<br /><br />The illusion of usual pronunciation wouldn't fool a phonetician or a sociolinguist. But it's the right effect for an audience listening carefully to the text while relying on somewhat stereotypical expectations to fill out the voice characteristics that they think they're hearing.<br /><br />In Britain, it's very noticeable in radio drama. The accents are usually not downright wrong for the regional or social lect, but they're often off-target but subtly persuasive.<br /><br />More generally, if you record something without a wider context, you compensate for the support that a hearer would normally rely on. If the intended hearers are foreign students, you try harder to compensate — and, paradoxically, try to conceal the fact that you're compensating. Reading single citation forms of words with no context whatsoever presents an ever greater challenge to the actor (or teacher). <br /><br />The clearer the diction, the more likely it is to be the result of careful artifice.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-873863762922432422012-03-14T15:33:04.467+00:002012-03-14T15:33:04.467+00:00Your student asked a tricky question,John. A simpl...Your student asked a tricky question,John. A simple answer is then, for a test---close your mouth and try to use your articulators to see what you get; a phonetic properties of a nasal and a glottal release—now close your mouth and nose to see what you get from the same articulation; jere just a phonetic property of glottal release. So how this could be a phonetic property is a sound but not a phonme. And the next question here seems to me of the onset timing, rather than having the conclusion that there is no release.LangLinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14326820272652746118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-5018823343954480512012-03-14T15:20:59.757+00:002012-03-14T15:20:59.757+00:00@David Crosbie:
Ella Fitzgerald's pronunciati...@David Crosbie:<br /><br />Ella Fitzgerald's pronunciation of "Manhattan" (at least the first couple of times, which is all I listened to) sounds like an alveolar stop with nasal release to me. Do you really hear glottal closure?vphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16647609487352038948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-3038759037810095412012-03-14T15:11:42.650+00:002012-03-14T15:11:42.650+00:00With great pleasure!
Ella, I note, though born in...With great pleasure!<br /><br />Ella, I note, though born in Virginia, was brought up in Yonkers just north of the city, and so has almost the same accent I do, or at least assumes it while singing this song. As the last few lines rhyming <i>spoil</i> and <i>girl</i> show, the lyricist had the PRICE=CHOICE merger, but Ella does not: she artificially pronounces <i>girl</i> with CHOICE.<br /><br />I have similar problems when I sing the Winnie-the-Pooh song "Cottleston Pie" for my grandson, replacing the line "Cottleston, Cottleston, Cottleston Pie" with "Dorian, Dorian, Dorian boy". Rather than doing a proper PRICE=CHOICE merger, which requires a lot of attention to produce all those [ʌɪ]s that I don't naturally have, I simply pronounce <i>boy</i> with PRICE, like a Newfie.<br /><br />Hey, he doesn't care, he's only three and it's a lullaby to him. (For the Poohvians among us, I am using the Fraser-Simpson melody from the <i>Pooh Song Book</i> as I learned it from the Jack Gilford album, but not imitating Gilford's accent. I also don't use the bridge melody that carries the second verse, as I find it a bit too disturbing for a lullaby.)John Cowanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452247999156925669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-59848763271858915692012-03-14T14:14:43.191+00:002012-03-14T14:14:43.191+00:00Put people in front of a microphone and they do fu...Put people in front of a microphone and they do funny things. Some of them we accept, some of them we don't. Being an actor is all about saying unnatural things in an unnatural way that suits the expectations of the audience at a particular time and place.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-12945341496813744272012-03-14T13:20:21.266+00:002012-03-14T13:20:21.266+00:00Illusion of usual pronunciation? What on earth wou...<b>Illusion</b> of usual pronunciation? What on earth would that be? If the auditory impression is the same as that in a "usual pronunciation", then functionally the pronunciation <b>is</b> a "usual pronunciation".wjarekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07871668374161722713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-51750688058952285792012-03-14T11:59:20.900+00:002012-03-14T11:59:20.900+00:00Forty years ago I was made aware of doing this in ...Forty years ago I was made aware of doing this in pronouncing an emphatic <i>But</i> before a pause. A Russian teacher of English heard it as an allophone of <b>/ts/</b> and asked me whether it was a new development in English.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-77959122497613997462012-03-14T11:49:14.235+00:002012-03-14T11:49:14.235+00:00Recordings by actors tend to a compromise between ...Recordings by actors tend to a compromise between clarity and usual pronunciation. In performance, the ideal is to achieve <b>the illusion</b> of usual pronunciation.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-28252280274301028772012-03-14T11:43:35.481+00:002012-03-14T11:43:35.481+00:00Listen to Ella Fitzgerald's pronunciation of M...Listen to <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJsa0OfWcGA" rel="nofollow">Ella Fitzgerald's pronunciation</a> of <i>Manhattan</i> and <i>Staten</i>.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-2468796545829505472012-03-14T11:35:26.429+00:002012-03-14T11:35:26.429+00:00Oh, and another thing I've been noticing latel...Oh, and another thing I've been noticing lately -- somewhat tangential, but not too tangential: For some speakers, the glottalisation of final voiceless plosives is so categorical that when they attempt e.g. a released final /t/, they end up with an ejective.wjarekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07871668374161722713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-12826401220959673162012-03-14T11:32:12.858+00:002012-03-14T11:32:12.858+00:00What bugs me is saying that "in the usual Eng...What bugs me is saying that "in the <i>usual</i> English pronuncation ... the release of the second plosive is 'masked'" (emphasis mine).<br /><br />Inaudible release is certainly an option; but try searching e.g. the LPD for e.g. -kt- and you'll find that in most of the recordings the /k/ <b>is</b> in fact audibly released.<br /><br />I have a suspicion that many of the speakers will have a glottalised /k/ in this position in their normal pronunciation, and they may overdo the /k/ when trying to be super-clear in recordings meant for dictionary use. Maybe. But still.wjarekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07871668374161722713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-88025799236662442732012-03-14T08:16:34.789+00:002012-03-14T08:16:34.789+00:00With regard to nasally released plosives: In my Sw...With regard to nasally released plosives: In my Swiss-German foreigner's pronunciation of English, I naturally produce nasal releases in words such as <i>sudden</i> or <i>cotton</i>. Yet when I see descriptions of the English pronunciation of these words, they do not mention a nasal release, but a glottal release. I wonder whether a nasal release in such words would also be used by native speakersj. mach wusthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12757552978906347033noreply@blogger.com