tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post3868708184457895745..comments2024-03-17T09:14:13.950+00:00Comments on John Wells’s phonetic blog: SexwaleJohn Wellshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13684304410735867148noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-74159887643669679732020-05-21T08:32:21.764+01:002020-05-21T08:32:21.764+01:00truegamingpro26
truegamingpro27
truegamingpro28
tr...<a href="https://truegamingpro26.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">truegamingpro26</a><br /><a href="https://truegamingpro27.blogspot.com//" rel="nofollow">truegamingpro27</a><br /><a href="https://truegamingpro28.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">truegamingpro28</a><br /><a href="https://truegamingpro29.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">truegamingpro29</a><br /><a href="https://truegamingpro30.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">truegamingpro30</a>Godnesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06254624654611065060noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-82610481627117052072016-03-14T14:37:44.281+00:002016-03-14T14:37:44.281+00:00Sexwale is Pedi (Northern Sotho)
He is difinitely...Sexwale is Pedi (Northern Sotho)<br /><br />He is difinitely not Venda.<br /><br />We are behind you John Well & we appreciate your work.<br /><br />Seboononghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10502274032194388926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-25569314814681125112011-11-24T06:08:09.511+00:002011-11-24T06:08:09.511+00:00Fair enough. So we can emend the rule to say that...Fair enough. So we can emend the rule to say that while syllable-initial /x/ can become /h/ or /k/, depending on various factors, syllable-final /x/ must become /k/, because English does not have syllable-final /h/.John Cowanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452247999156925669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-86399454578763612532011-11-24T02:11:00.380+00:002011-11-24T02:11:00.380+00:00John Cowan
I think that initial /x/ becomes /h/ (...John Cowan<br /><br /><i>I think that initial /x/ becomes /h/ (with or without /w/ following), whereas final /x/ becomes /k/. </i><br /><br />Doesn't the spelling have a big effect? I would expect any place name transliterated as having initial <i>Ch-</i> or <i>Kh-</i> to be pronounced with in initial <b>k</b>. Think of <i>Khartoum, Khatchaturian, Khan</i>. <br /><br />Greek letter <i>chi</i> was often a <b>x</b> sound, and historically has been transliterated as <i>ch</i> and pronounced <b>k</b>. So the island of <i>Χιοσ</i> is known to classicists as <b>ki:ɒs</b>. But the modern pronunciation is more like <b>çios</b> and so your rule kicks in for some — yielding a transliteration <i>Hios</i>.<br /><br />Maybe it's only Greek <b>x</b> that's transliterated <b>ch</b>. We say write <i>Chersonese</i> and say <b>kɜ:səni:z</b> (well, I do) — but <i>Херсон</i> (now in Ukraine) is transliterated <i>Kherson</i> and pronounced (I think) <b>kɜ:(r)sɒn</b>.<br /><br />[Oh yes, now I remember that <b>xan</b> was once transcribed as <i>Cham</i> — but that just led to a spelling pronunciation <b>tʃam</b>.]<br /><br />The first part of your rule links <i>Juarez</i> etc to what happened to <i>hw-</i> in the history of English. It would be nice if your second part also reflected historical phonology, but elsewhere the Old English fricative ended up with a <i>gh</i> spelling and no consistent sound value.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-20275904527468933082011-11-23T18:31:45.679+00:002011-11-23T18:31:45.679+00:00I think that initial /x/ becomes /h/ (with or with...I think that initial /x/ becomes /h/ (with or without /w/ following), whereas final /x/ becomes /k/. So it's all about whether we anglophones hear the /x/ as final or initial, which is only loosely tied to whether it counts as final or initial in Venda. If we have a checked vowel in the first syllable, it's presumably (though not guaranteed to be) final, and thus /k/.John Cowanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452247999156925669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-74799984771315825952011-11-23T05:18:03.466+00:002011-11-23T05:18:03.466+00:00I don't think it's true that the [x] in [x...I don't think it's true that the [x] in [xw] is usually anglicized to /h/ or zero, not to /k/. That's true for words that come from Spanish. I don't think we can generalize based on words from one language.Ellen Kozisekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16856539181411664278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-79561198751886384452011-11-22T17:18:13.392+00:002011-11-22T17:18:13.392+00:00Oh yes, I see. I am only an amateur and am Scots. ...Oh yes, I see. I am only an amateur and am Scots. <br />So for me, [x] is as in "loch" and always expect the Southern British version to be [k].<br /><br />Thanks.Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09698347977063834446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-41263658092629163992011-11-22T16:33:26.303+00:002011-11-22T16:33:26.303+00:00I mean that the [x] in [xw] is usually anglicized ...I mean that the [x] in [xw] is usually anglicized to /h/ or zero, not to /k/.army1987https://www.blogger.com/profile/01166052755101226806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-84897168063164717672011-11-22T15:34:45.057+00:002011-11-22T15:34:45.057+00:00Army1987: I must be missing something because I do...Army1987: I must be missing something because I don't see the connection. If anything, you seem to be proving the point that you disagree with: we Anglicize sounds in proper names only when there isn't an exact corresponding sound in English.Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09698347977063834446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-11759890588806133982011-11-22T12:38:55.376+00:002011-11-22T12:38:55.376+00:00seˈxwɑːleɪ or, failing that, seˈkwɑːleɪ,
Why? Wor...<i>seˈxwɑːleɪ or, failing that, seˈkwɑːleɪ,</i><br /><br />Why? Words such as <i>Juarez</i> or <i>marijuana</i> are Anglicized to /hw/ (/w/ for speakers with the whine-wine merger).<br /><br />(Also, DRESS in an open syllable sounds weird; my instinct suggests to use rosES or FACE.)army1987https://www.blogger.com/profile/01166052755101226806noreply@blogger.com