tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post420751417055825416..comments2024-03-17T09:14:13.950+00:00Comments on John Wells’s phonetic blog: funny har-harJohn Wellshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13684304410735867148noreply@blogger.comBlogger47125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-25487825061981598502013-03-10T21:46:45.002+00:002013-03-10T21:46:45.002+00:00Actually, I had to use it to publish my comment.Actually, I had to use it to publish my comment.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13657553038629100287noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-88629431607712071702013-03-10T21:45:47.216+00:002013-03-10T21:45:47.216+00:00What about the security device used on many web-pa...What about the security device used on many web-pages to prevent the use of 'robot' software, called 'captcha'?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13657553038629100287noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-27618855929863293432011-03-08T09:09:31.353+00:002011-03-08T09:09:31.353+00:00I certainly didn't match "Shaun" and...I certainly didn't match "Shaun" and "shorn" until you told me it was a pun. Not just because of my rhotic accent, but because of my caught/cot merger.Juliehttp://www.julieannmaahs.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-32036472652801099472011-03-08T06:41:51.918+00:002011-03-08T06:41:51.918+00:00Funnily enough, Irish tabloid headlines frequently...Funnily enough, Irish tabloid headlines frequently make puns that only work for non-rhotic speakers. <br /><br />I suppose this is because Irish people all have a good awareness of non-rhoticity, so you can get the joke without having to pronounce the words. <br /><br />Mind you, I spent most of my life selling Whiskas cat food and Beta dog food without ever copping the puns.A2dezhttp://a2dez.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-56230798307451334522011-03-07T01:23:43.802+00:002011-03-07T01:23:43.802+00:00And one from a TV advert for car insurance, so ann...And one from a TV advert for car insurance, so annoying that I can't bring myself to quote the name of the company. It has subtitles, which make the joke even more obscure if watching with the sound down: <br />It's where you go to /'gəʊ tə/<br />Insure your motor /'məʊtə/Harry Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01675794936870568336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-55618941034721254702011-03-04T20:08:52.322+00:002011-03-04T20:08:52.322+00:00@Eóghan Mac Eóghain. Yes. The síneadh fada would o...@Eóghan Mac Eóghain. Yes. The síneadh fada would only ever have been on the o, not the e. I don't think "éo" is a possible sequence in Irish. Interference from Old English, or Middle Earth.mollymoolynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-56942273755499930592011-03-04T17:14:09.464+00:002011-03-04T17:14:09.464+00:00Mollymooly: Éoghan isn't actually cognate to ...Mollymooly: <i>Éoghan</i> isn't actually cognate to <i>Eugene</i>. Rather, <i>Eugenius</i> (from Greek Ευγένιος 'well-born') was used as a Latin name by those who bore the native name <i>Éoghan</i>, which means 'born from the yew'. The root in <i>Éoghan</i> is the same as in <i>Maigh Éo</i> 'land of the yew', anglicized <i>Mayo</i>.<br /><br />(My grandfather of the same name came from Mayo, and wrote his name <i>John Coen</i> — notwithstanding which the first syllable of my surname is homophonous with <i>cow</i>.)<br /><br /> —Éoghan Mac ÉoghainJohn Cowanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452247999156925669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-54621242995022426942011-03-04T11:11:00.533+00:002011-03-04T11:11:00.533+00:00If you want to hear Peter French say the word &quo...If you want to hear Peter French say the word "adhesive" and have no access to BBC iPlayer, you can go to http://matters-phonetic.blogspot.com/2011/03/police-send-please.html, where I've put the phrase online.Krauthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11932831673529849848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-17158634216138516472011-03-04T07:06:38.512+00:002011-03-04T07:06:38.512+00:00@VP,
People in what the Labov et. al's *Atlas ...@VP,<br />People in what the Labov et. al's *Atlas of North American English* refers to as Southeastern superregion (Chs. 17-19). I'm right outside of Philadelphia, where the shift is pretty much across age and social groups. "More" and "moor" (or Moore, if we want a more common word) for instance, are pretty much merged for everyone I know.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-13533861677066397102011-03-03T22:59:26.531+00:002011-03-03T22:59:26.531+00:00The shaun/shorn pun is also a bit off for those Am...<i>The shaun/shorn pun is also a bit off for those Americans who have a Back Shift Before /r/. ʃɔːn and ʃuːrn</i><br /><br />Who does that?vphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16647609487352038948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-19182936325389952932011-03-03T21:03:39.025+00:002011-03-03T21:03:39.025+00:00@mallamb "given oːn for the cognate 'Owen...@mallamb "given oːn for the cognate 'Owen', but I always unthinkingly put that down to the influence of Gaelic 'Eoin'"<br /><br />Interference from Irish is always a good bet. "Owen" in Ireland may represent "Eoin", cognate of John, or "Eoghan", cognate of Eugene. I'd hazard a guess that the latter is more likely to map to oːn in English.mollymoolynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-54729217594727415972011-03-03T21:02:41.715+00:002011-03-03T21:02:41.715+00:00OMG. It must be that not only can 'error' ...OMG. It must be that not only can 'error' and 'arrow' be homophones, but 'arrow' is a hypercorrection, like "It's verra window ('window' is 'windae') today" in Edinburgh. For Cockney, 'cock-sparrer' etc must surely be immune from that.mallambhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07086916400059545681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-73867467258311984652011-03-03T20:11:17.959+00:002011-03-03T20:11:17.959+00:00In an online presentation (made in New York) I par...In an online presentation (made in New York) I participated in for my job a few days ago, there was the warning that if we didn't follow the proper sequence of events our software would give "an arrow message" [error message]. This implies that in some non-rhotic New York dialects 'error' and 'arrow' are homophones.Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14323047226383220102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-20186496785355699262011-03-03T20:07:25.539+00:002011-03-03T20:07:25.539+00:00The shaun/shorn pun is also a bit off for those Am...The shaun/shorn pun is also a bit off for those Americans who have a Back Shift Before /r/. ʃɔːn and ʃuːrnAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-30545784442083306922011-03-03T18:59:49.388+00:002011-03-03T18:59:49.388+00:00Getting back to Shaun the Sheep. This semi-r-less ...Getting back to Shaun the Sheep. This semi-r-less New Yorker didn't realize that Eeyore's name in Winnie the Pooh was onomatopoetic until I was in my thirties.nycguyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02799769428539687855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-75045179385625457542011-03-03T17:10:06.677+00:002011-03-03T17:10:06.677+00:00Oh dear. I meant the Arab would probably say hɛː h...Oh dear. I meant the Arab would probably say hɛː hɛː for 'ha ha'. For the title of this blog entry he would probably say hɑːr hɑːr.mallambhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07086916400059545681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-17220341412034083882011-03-03T13:40:28.795+00:002011-03-03T13:40:28.795+00:00Also no doubt relevant that Deena's father was...Also no doubt relevant that Deena's father was an Arab, who would probably say hɛː hɛː for the title of this blog entry.mallambhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07086916400059545681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-21510643215874449072011-03-03T13:33:58.820+00:002011-03-03T13:33:58.820+00:00(Not really off-topic, as it suggests these kids ...(Not really off-topic, as it suggests these kids are onto rhoticity issues that early.)mallambhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07086916400059545681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-30749280537451282512011-03-03T13:29:11.659+00:002011-03-03T13:29:11.659+00:00Come to think of it, my son had ˈdiːnɛ for a playg...Come to think of it, my son had ˈdiːnɛ for a playgroup friend Deena (family being of Leeds provenance probably relevant though) and ˈɺoːɡaː for my German doctoral student Roger.mallambhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07086916400059545681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-45419475879783589262011-03-03T13:11:46.807+00:002011-03-03T13:11:46.807+00:00Well at least he's aware of the difference bet...Well at least he's aware of the difference between E and Ger -er, rhotic or no, and that's why it's mɔ(ə), for ʃɔ(ə).mallambhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07086916400059545681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-12079538513986708692011-03-03T11:42:59.815+00:002011-03-03T11:42:59.815+00:00mallamb,
the series doesn't use actual langua...mallamb,<br /><br />the series doesn't use actual language, with very few slurred exceptions. They found quite a good way of using fake language, based on English intonation etc., that reminds of bleaking, barking or whatever the animal is. The title song's in English, but if he'd taken it from there, he'd say <b>ʃəjp</b> rather than <b>ʃip</b>.<br /><br />(Sorry, off-topic.)<br /><br /><b>mɔɐ̯</b> - no, too fine a distinction yet, and the locals are rhotic. Interestingly, for <i>aqua</i>, he has English <b>ˈwɔːtɛ</b> or <b>ˈwɔːd̥ɛ</b> and German <b>ˈvasa</b> (European <i>a</i>s).Phillip Mindenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16801818752833289089noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-13791926622303136982011-03-03T11:23:57.382+00:002011-03-03T11:23:57.382+00:00molly,
I'll be on the listen-out for iːn. It s...molly,<br />I'll be on the listen-out for iːn. It shouldn’t surprise me, given oːn for the cognate 'Owen', but I always unthinkingly put that down to the influence of Gaelic 'Eoin'. I regret to see LPD3 doesn’t give oːn for that, only listing ˈəʊ ɪn -ən ǁ ˈoʊ ən and jəʊn ǁ joʊn. 'Owen' is definitely ˈəʊɪn for me, and I should think jəʊn ǁ joʊn is some kind of spelling pronunciation, but it sort of resuscitates the link with Ian, doesn’t it?<br /><br />Can even 'Iain' be iːn?<br /><br />Lazar,<br />Do these Americans who don't get the connection to "whiskers" at all pronounce it ˈwɪskæs or something? It's a bit hard to imagine that they don't get the connection to "whiskers" unless they misinterpret the spelling completely, and never hear ˈwɪskəz.<br /><br />Richard,<br />We're not only used to seeing errr or urrr; we're used to hearing it, with the linking r.<br /><br />Lipman,<br />He's apparently watching it in English. Perhaps that's what children everywhere are supposed to do. Is there no mischmasch component? Does mɔ(ə) include mɔɐ̯ or anything? <br /><br />There could be hidden depths. In the High Culture of my son's mischmasch days, mɔː was Mozart (or of course any music), but also English 'more' and Japanese mɔː, which inscrutably has a range of meanings from past to future: (1) already; anymore; (2) soon; shortly; (3) more; further; other; again; (4) Enough, already! The syntax was more to the Japanese end of the spectrum, so he did say mɔː mɔː, but it was not parallel to mɔ(ə) ʃip. It was \mɔː \mɔː, as in kɯˈɺispɯsɯ mɔː (more crisps – note that thanks to Japanese syllabification krɪsps is all there, at an age when most kids were saying kɪp). When the music finished, we got a fed-up mɔː ˈnai. I never did know whether that was "there's no music" or "all gone", as with food and sparklers etc.<br /><br />Pun-wise and distribution-wise, it's a good job they didn't call the sheep Seán, isn't it?mallambhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07086916400059545681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-44964767486375683642011-03-03T10:02:55.965+00:002011-03-03T10:02:55.965+00:00Shaun/shorn is one of these slightly uncomfortable...Shaun/shorn is one of these slightly uncomfortable slightly off puns unless you have a NORTH/FORCE merger.<br /><br />As an aside, my two-year old son asks for it as <b>ˈtkətəkəːː</b> - the opening credits start with a cock-a-doodle-doo - or as <b>ʃip</b>. (The vowel will get its proper length when I don't oblige at once. Also, the issue of the NORTH/FORCE merger comes up after the end of the episode: <b>mɔ(ə) ʃip</b>.)Phillip Mindenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16801818752833289089noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-8398471236251533292011-03-03T06:21:49.868+00:002011-03-03T06:21:49.868+00:00That most internationally well-known English expre...That most internationally well-known English expression OK is derived from a misspelling that betrays non-rhoticity (orl korrect).<br /><br />To me, "uh" suggests the briefest of noises, and its spelling suggests /ʌ/. It was a while before I learnt (from a linguistics forum) that "uh" might be used for an extended noise indicating hestitation... if the writer is a rhotic American. As a Briton I'm used to seeing errr or urrr (number of r's variable!).<br /><br />Re Whiskas: the UK company Sainsbury's used to have a hypermarket chain called SavaCentre.Richard Sabeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06707961497644079468noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-16473664457147393072011-03-03T04:12:37.108+00:002011-03-03T04:12:37.108+00:00In the US we do have the cat food brand Whiskas; I...In the US we do have the cat food brand Whiskas; I've heard anecdotally that some Americans don't get the connection to "whiskers" at all.<br /><br />A somewhat trivial case that comes to mind is the mascot of the Boston Red Sox: Wally, a green monster, named after the Green Monster, a wall. Strictly speaking, this pun fails in both RP (with /ˈwɒli/ and /ˈwɔːl/ and "orthodox" GA (with /ˈwɑːli/ and /ˈwɒːl/), but it succeeds in:<br /><br />a) cot-caught merged Eastern New England, with /ˈwɒːli/ and /ˈwɒːl/,<br /><br />b) low-back unmerged GA with rounding after /w/, yielding /ˈwɒːli/ and /ˈwɒːl/, and<br /><br />c) low-back merged GA, and CanEng, with /ˈwɑːli/ and /ˈwɑːl/, or /ˈwɒːli/ and /ˈwɒːl/.<br /><br />Of course, even in the failing cases, the vowels are still close, so it works as a near-pun.Lazar Taxonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13221219358689771815noreply@blogger.com