tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post4380136569896170912..comments2024-03-17T09:14:13.950+00:00Comments on John Wells’s phonetic blog: traumaJohn Wellshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13684304410735867148noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-17934363589995066632020-06-23T11:15:55.146+01:002020-06-23T11:15:55.146+01:00Haloo pak^^
Kami dari SENTANAPOKER ingin menawark...Haloo pak^^<br /><br />Kami dari SENTANAPOKER ingin menawarkan pak^^<br /><br />Untuk saat ini kami menerima Deposit Melalui Pulsa ya pak.<br /><br />*untuk minimal deposit 10ribu<br />*untuk minimal Withdraw 25ribu<br /><br />*untuk deposit pulsa kami menerima provider<br />-XL<br />-Telkomsel<br /><br /><br />untuk bonus yang kami miliki kami memiliki<br />*bonus cashback 0,5%<br />*bunus refferal 20%<br />*bonus gebiar bulanan (N-max,samsung Note 10+,Iphone xr 64G,camera go pro 7hero,Apple airpods 2 ,dan freechips)<br /><br />Daftar Langsung Di:<br /><br />SENTANAPOKER<br /><br />Kontak Kami;<br /><br />WA : +855 9647 76509<br />Line : SentanaPoker<br />Wechat : SentanaPokerLivechat Sentanapoker<br /><br />Proses deposit dan withdraw tercepat bisa anda rasakan jika bermain di Sentanapoker. So… ? tunggu apa lagi ? Mari bergabung dengan kami. Pelayanan CS yang ramah dan Proffesional dan pastinya sangat aman juga bisa anda dapatkan di Sentanapoker.yessy haryantohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16503331838637071246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-55259708196765046012012-09-26T08:29:29.816+01:002012-09-26T08:29:29.816+01:00On Nestlé: there is an extensive discussion of the...On Nestlé: there is an extensive discussion of the pronunciation here - http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1786092 - and the pronunciation was definitely originally /ˈnesl/ in the UK and /ˈnesli:/ in the US.<br /><br />I say /ˈtrɔ:mə/ only, and /ˈɔ:rəl/ for both oral and aural. Usually the context disambiguates - you know it's an aural exam when you're going for a music exam, although it won't be clear which /ˈɔ:rəl/ exam it is when it is an English exam, say. I also say /ˈsɔ:teɪ/ for sauté.Peter Tanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02871546762671752664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-90381153577453154832012-09-22T14:11:00.738+01:002012-09-22T14:11:00.738+01:00I'm 53, and American. Even though it was one o...I'm 53, and American. Even though it was one of the common brands when I was a kid, I don't think I ever heard the nɛslz pronunciation. It's always been either nɛsliz or nɛsleɪz. Peter Shorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13823970640202949073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-50403306110968371682012-09-22T01:17:41.662+01:002012-09-22T01:17:41.662+01:00Ellen
I'm fourteen years older than Steve, so...Ellen<br /><br />I'm fourteen years older than Steve, so I remember when there were no commercials on TV here in Britain. I can't remember when I first heard <b>nɛsleɪ</b>. I think the pronunciation gained ground when I was working overseas. <br /><br />And yes, of course I meant everybody in Britain — I wouldn't presume to comment on American pronunciation. US and UK are not just linguistically different, they're different <b>markets</b>. A brand name like <i>Nestlé</i> may be pronounced differently in different markets. A brand name like <i>Braun</i> may not feature in both markets.<br /><br />David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-18186697541301610472012-09-21T18:01:09.300+01:002012-09-21T18:01:09.300+01:00It was certainly ˈnɛsl̩z Milky Bar when I was a ki...It was certainly <b>ˈnɛsl̩z</b> <em>Milky Bar</em> when I was a kid (I'm 54 and British).Steve Doerrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18210787261745134371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-77124315985074698952012-09-21T15:14:40.630+01:002012-09-21T15:14:40.630+01:00How long ago was that true for Nestlé? I've ne...How long ago was that true for Nestlé? I've never in my 40-some years heard the <b>nɛsl</b>/<b>nɛslz</b> pronunciation. However, looking on the internet for pronunciation, I see that mentioned as a British pronunciation. (I'm American.) Since it sounds like you mean relatively recently, I'm thinking your "everyone" means everyone speaking British English.Ellen Kozisekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16856539181411664278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-38106613326624040842012-09-21T14:00:07.191+01:002012-09-21T14:00:07.191+01:00Let's see, what do I have:
LOT = CLOTH = THOU...Let's see, what do I have:<br /><br />LOT = CLOTH = THOUGHT: trauma, cauliflower, sausage, saute, De Gaulle, glaucoma, autograph, nautical, aural<br /><br />PALM: aunt<br /><br />GOAT: chauffeur, gauche, mauve<br /><br />MOUTH: sauerkraut, Strauss, Gauss, Faust, Audi, tau<br /><br />NORTH = FORCE: oralAJDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15212125374163334242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-48716883065919245132012-09-21T11:12:45.535+01:002012-09-21T11:12:45.535+01:00Using the Wikipedia system of diaphonemes, it is /...Using the Wikipedia system of diaphonemes, it is /'eɪvjɑrd/. It is a WR Yorkshire name, and is pronounced ['e:vja:d] in our accent.Edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04081841460525341333noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-86698267171995756782012-09-21T10:59:29.042+01:002012-09-21T10:59:29.042+01:00vp
So we would expect MOUTH only in words that en...vp<br /><br /><i>So we would expect MOUTH only in words that entered English after the GVS, and did not come via French</i><br /><br />That would only apply to words that entered English as <b>spoken</b> items. But loan words do tend to come as <b>written</b> items. Hence the widespread pronunciation <b>brɔ:n</b> for <i>Braun</i>.<br /><br />This could have been resisted — not a difficult task for firms who advertise on television. In the past everybody said <b>nɛslz</b> for <i>Nestlé's</i>, but the advertisers have now taught us differently. Similarly, they have taught us to say <b>aʊdi</b>. They could well have taught us to say <b>braʊn</b>, but decided against it.<br /><br /><i>Sauna</i> must have entered long after the GVS, but the <b>sɔ:nə</b> pronunciation flourished. I suggest that this is because far more people read about a sauna than used or ever saw one.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-2353727363753837202012-09-21T08:07:38.347+01:002012-09-21T08:07:38.347+01:00Though I don't find it particularly strange lo...Though I don't find it particularly strange looking, I <i>am</i> wondering how it's pronounced.Kilian Hekhuishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01084720179158650652noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-16049781144726649962012-09-21T07:06:39.669+01:002012-09-21T07:06:39.669+01:00And then there's analogy with words that look ...And then there's analogy with words that look similar, and the general default interpretation of written <i>au</i>.<br /><br />Phillip MindenPhillip Mindenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16801818752833289089noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-78661623332195539632012-09-20T23:39:38.834+01:002012-09-20T23:39:38.834+01:00The development /au/ -> /ɔː/ happened more or l...The development /au/ -> /ɔː/ happened more or less simultaneous with the Great Vowel Shift, I believe.<br /><br />So we would expect MOUTH only in words that entered English after the GVS, and did not come via French (where /au/ had its own developments).vphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16647609487352038948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-42552741735232214612012-09-20T21:31:05.758+01:002012-09-20T21:31:05.758+01:00For 'trauma' I probably fluctuate between ...For 'trauma' I probably fluctuate between THOUGHT and MOUTH. I pretty reliably have MOUTH for words of German origin, including 'Braun' and 'Audi'.<br /><br />One interesting case for me is 'sauna', of Finnish origin, which I'm quite used to hearing and pronouncing with MOUTH, because it usually comes up in conversations with non-native speakers of English who tend toward the more Finnish pronunciation. Sometimes it takes me a moment to recognize the word if pronounced with THOUGHT, as most native English speakers would.Jongseonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12558136756392729306noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-53362209339962131832012-09-20T21:15:04.820+01:002012-09-20T21:15:04.820+01:00@John Cowan. "Culliflower"? Interesting,...@John Cowan. "Culliflower"? Interesting, don't think I've heard that before. I have:<br /><br />MOUTH: sauerkraut, Strauss, Faustian, Gaussian, Audi, Braun<br /><br />THOUGHT=CLOTH: trauma, cauliflower, saucer, applaud, paunch, Paul, sausage, sauté, Gaul, autograph, nautical, authentic, augment, auxiliary<br /><br />GOAT: chauffeur, gauche, mauve, de Gaulle<br /><br />TRAP: aunt<br /><br />NORTH: aural<br /><br />FORCE: oral<br /><br />I do say <b>taʊ</b>, though I'd like to say <b>tɔː</b> for consistency's sake. On the other hand, I stick firmly to /ænt/, though some of the more sophisticated Americans have /ɑːnt/.<br /><br />- Stephen Bruce (Illinois)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-79056996078554980002012-09-20T16:32:14.973+01:002012-09-20T16:32:14.973+01:00Here's my list:
MOUTH: trauma (both physical ...Here's my list:<br /><br />MOUTH: <i>trauma</i> (both physical and psychological), <i>sauerkraut, Strauss, Faustian, Gaussian, Audi, glaucoma, tau; aural</i> only when necessary. I don't know <i>Braun</i> as a trade name; as a German surname, I'd pronounce it with MOUTH. <br /><br />THOUGHT=CLOTH: <i>saucer, applaud, paunch, Paul, sausage, sauté, de Gaulle, Gaul, autograph, nautical, authentic, augment, auxiliary</i>.<br /><br />GOAT: <i>chauffeur, gauche, mauve</i><br /><br />STRUT: <i>cauliflower</i>.<br /><br />TRAP: <i>aunt</i>.<br /><br />NORTH=FORCE: <i>oral, aural</i> except when disambiguation is required.<br /><br />And of course for me <i>A&E</i> is the name of a cable television channel.John Cowanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452247999156925669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-7931682259043452782012-09-20T15:25:53.033+01:002012-09-20T15:25:53.033+01:00I'm from the middle of the U.S. and pronounce ...I'm from the middle of the U.S. and pronounce it as <b>tramə</b>. (Or <b>trɑmə</b> if you prefer.) Perhaps influenced by the cot-caught merger (which I don't have) or perhaps influenced by drama (they rhyme for me).<br /><br />The adjective traumatic has a schwa in the first syllable for me.Ellen Kozisekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16856539181411664278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-58200183142756123292012-09-20T14:37:45.793+01:002012-09-20T14:37:45.793+01:00I suffer from the (American) Northern Cities Shift...I suffer from the (American) Northern Cities Shift. Sometimes, particularly when I'm not paying attention to my speech, ɔ becomes ɑ. This means that while /ˈtrɔːmə/ is an option, /ˈtrɑːmə/ is likewise attractive—if not moreso.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06175428302742832802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-65039580021951731672012-09-20T14:04:27.261+01:002012-09-20T14:04:27.261+01:00I have ɔː in trauma. Also in sausage, sauté, and ...I have ɔː in trauma. Also in sausage, sauté, and glaucoma.Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13845139257399756782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-56983922181153879562012-09-20T12:44:21.454+01:002012-09-20T12:44:21.454+01:00Some British people pronounce the name "Claud...Some British people pronounce the name "Claudia" with /aʊ/. I find it surprising that this pronunciation persists despite the availability of /ɔː/ as an alternative that's more consistent with the treatment of "au".<br /><br />In addition, I once met a British person (accent near-RP) named Laura who said her name with /aʊ/. I didn't ask her why, as I imagined that she got sick of everyone asking her that, much as I get tired of people telling me how strange my surname is.<br /><br />Ed AveyardEdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04081841460525341333noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-22324568007527200282012-09-20T12:07:14.038+01:002012-09-20T12:07:14.038+01:00Always ˈtrɔːmə for me, and I use the same vowel so...Always ˈtrɔːmə for me, and I use the same vowel sound in <i>sauté</i> but stick to French əʊ in <i>chauffeur</i>.<br /><br /><i>Audi</i> with aʊ suggests "'owdy", but I still say it that way at least some of the time. Having studied German might be a factor.Stanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03386875624025404452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-86442017607372793772012-09-20T12:05:35.600+01:002012-09-20T12:05:35.600+01:00I think I have ɔ:rəl "aural" and o:rəl &...I think I have <b>ɔ:rəl</b> "aural" and <b>o:rəl</b> "oral" even though I do have the horse-hoarse merger. The former is like my <i>cause</i> and the latter like my <i>more</i>. Michael Eversonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16882679137179765872noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-80234589330838525722012-09-20T10:49:27.797+01:002012-09-20T10:49:27.797+01:00I think I've said ˈaʊrəl rather than ɔ:rəl &qu...I think I've said ˈaʊrəl rather than ɔ:rəl "aural", even though, lacking the horse-hoarse merger, I have o:rəl for "oral". You can't be too careful, y'know.mollymoolyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12318298535149179044noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-81734339016904168492012-09-20T10:26:28.888+01:002012-09-20T10:26:28.888+01:00The general unspoken assumption seems to be SCIENT...The general unspoken assumption seems to be SCIENTIFIC=GERMAN.<br /><br /><i>Braun</i> is technology, not science — and consumer technology at that.<br /><br />The pronunciation <b>ˈaʊrəl</b> is that rarity of rarities a conscious, deliberate, useful mistake. I think I prefer <b>eɪ ju: ɔ:rəl</b>. Neither device works unless the hearer(s) are aware not only of the homophony but also of the actual danger of ambiguity at the time of speaking. <br /><br />And there's no need to mess with <b>ɔ:rəl kɒmprɪhɛnʃən</b> or <b>ɔ:rəl kɒmpəzɪʃən</b>. We don't comprehend through our mouths, nor do we compose through our ears.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-50141406110917077412012-09-20T09:25:09.654+01:002012-09-20T09:25:09.654+01:00I'm sure the pronunciation of "De Gaulle&...I'm sure the pronunciation of "De Gaulle" is influenced by "Gaul", an appropriate folk etymology. Wikipedia tells me the name is from the Flemish "Walle" 'rampart', cognate with English "wall" -- which also has the THOUGHT vowel.mollymoolyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12318298535149179044noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-33246266344301221352012-09-20T09:00:56.884+01:002012-09-20T09:00:56.884+01:00I wouldn't pronounce those scientific Greek wo...I wouldn't pronounce those scientific Greek words with <b>aʊ</b>, and I think in cases where the words are established in current use, for example <i>trauma unit</i>, most people would agree with me. It's definitely <b>ˈtrɔːmə ˈjuːnɪt</b>.<br /><br />I have heard <b>glaʊˈkəʊmə</b> but I've always assumed that was a recent pronunciation, along the lines of <b>ˈælgaɪ</b> for <i>algae</i> (traditionally <b>ˈældʒiː</b>).<br /><br />piː mæk ənɛnəPetehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13722482936100504510noreply@blogger.com