tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post4482499890100262327..comments2024-03-17T09:14:13.950+00:00Comments on John Wells’s phonetic blog: Benedicite, omnia operaJohn Wellshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13684304410735867148noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-43983340848628724142019-08-21T14:13:36.830+01:002019-08-21T14:13:36.830+01:00I think that thanks for the valuabe information an...I think that thanks for the valuabe information and insights you have so provided here.<br /><a href="https://bab9.com/%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AD%D8%B1%D9%88%D9%81-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A7%D9%86%D8%AC%D9%84%D9%8A%D8%B2%D9%8A%D8%A9" rel="nofollow">االحروف الانجليزيه</a><br />atif xhaikhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02930570824595079707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-41782824310683169162009-11-12T07:30:59.729+00:002009-11-12T07:30:59.729+00:00At this morning, when i said the benedicite, i was...At this morning, when i said the benedicite, i was reminded that the "winter and summer" is to bless the lord, and praise and magnify him forever.Even the oppresive, sweltering heat, which was crushing me and keeping.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.r4-ds-karte.ch" rel="nofollow">r4i software</a>Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11969895452915858560noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-61210363294746744192009-11-08T21:40:44.593+00:002009-11-08T21:40:44.593+00:00Sorry for the very late comment. In Wilfred Owen&...Sorry for the very late comment. In Wilfred Owen's famous poem "Dulce et Decorum Est", the Latin word "morī" rhymes with the English word "glory", implying what you here call a "reformed" pronunciation of the final vowel.<br /><br />Owen was born in 1893, and according to Wikipedia "was raised as an Anglican of the evangelical school". The poem was probably written in 1917. Here's a link to the poem: http://www.warpoetry.co.uk/owen1.htmlvphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16647609487352038948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-8650973866002340772009-09-17T19:53:03.727+01:002009-09-17T19:53:03.727+01:00BTW
When I learned Latin in the very early 60s, v...BTW<br /><br />When I learned Latin in the very early 60s, v most certainly was [w]John Maidmentnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-85592016546475904822009-09-17T11:01:40.576+01:002009-09-17T11:01:40.576+01:00I'm interested in your last paragraph, in whic...I'm interested in your last paragraph, in which you comment on the "Catholic, Italianate" pronunciation not used in Anglican schools and churches. The school I went to (in the 1980s) was a British state school but very traditionalist and grammar school-like: a small number of us did study Latin and we had music and religious stuff which was heavily Anglican influenced. Indeed, since my time there there has been some controversy regarding whether it should be officially recognised as a Church of England school or not.<br /><br />In Latin classes we were taught the reformed pronunciations you suggest are used for actual Latin phrases, but in singing we were taught what you refer to as Catholic and Italianate; except we were told it was "Church Latin"! Perhaps there was/is more variation, especially as so few English people now encounter actual Latin (as opposed to loans into English) at all. Perhaps our school, being not-quite-independent and not-quite-Anglican, just hypercorrected.<br /><br />I enjoyed Latin at school but rebelled against singing it on the grounds that I thought religious material should be in the vernacular. So I am left always wanting to pronounce Latin in the "reformed" manner. This has left me open to ridicule from a colleague who is a trained lawyer, and who is very amused by my attempts to pronounce Latin legal phrases seeing as I haven't the faintest idea how lawyers pronounce them --- and, of course, the teenage rebel in me still wishes lawyers wouldn't use Latin at all in the presence of us lesser mortals who didn't go to public school, and actually stick to English in the English courts ;-)<br /><br />On the positive side, though, I did once impress a Cambridge don who had some ridiculous title which meant he actually understood some Latin: I went to him to check the pronunciation of a grace but he didn't expect me to notate his response in IPA...Paulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-66306902880127307582009-09-17T08:16:35.217+01:002009-09-17T08:16:35.217+01:00Orff is usually sung in the German variety of the ...Orff is usually sung in the German variety of the NP. The differences aren't as big as in English Latin, mainly about ce, ce = ke, ki instead of the older tse, tsi. Interesting how much superior a 10-year old can feel towards laypeople who aren't classically educated, just by knowing <i>Caesar</i> is pronounced [ˈkʰeːzɐ], not [ˈʦeːzɐ].Phillip Mindenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16801818752833289089noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-25492609114539622132009-09-17T07:56:12.031+01:002009-09-17T07:56:12.031+01:00In the recording of Carmina Burana by Orff that I ...In the recording of Carmina Burana by Orff that I own (conducted by Rafael Frühbeck de Burgos) an aria sung by a soprano starts like this:<br /><br />[ɪn trutina mentɪs dubiɑː<br />fluctuant contrɑːriɑː<br />lasivus amor<br />et puditsitiɑː<br /><br />sed eligo kvod video]<br /><br />The singer, Lucia Popp, is German. I remember being very surprised when I first heard it, many many years ago.John Maidmentnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-18753590421593884882009-09-17T02:49:11.066+01:002009-09-17T02:49:11.066+01:00Timothy J. McGee (ed.), Singing Early Music: The P...Timothy J. McGee (ed.), Singing Early Music: The Pronunciation of European Languages in the Late Middle Ages and Renaissance (Indiana UP, 1996) has, in the chapter on Anglo-Latin, a chart indicating the English pronunciation of Latin century by century from 1100 to 1700.Lance Eccleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04712002642501309020noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-78193193898823742642009-09-16T15:47:05.546+01:002009-09-16T15:47:05.546+01:00Famous "weeny, weady, weaky" (or wainy, ...Famous "weeny, weady, weaky" (or wainy, more rarely and less punny).<br /><br />What I find interesting as well is how far the two systems make their way. Lawyers' Latin phrases are quite untouched, everyday words such as <i>via</i> are sometimes pronounced in the reformed way. (Though I don't think I've heard *[wiːɑː], just [viːə] for the older [vaɪə]. Those who'd smoothedly say *[vɪə] say [vaː] aynway, don't we.)Phillip Mindenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16801818752833289089noreply@blogger.com