tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post4546883210205835465..comments2024-03-17T09:14:13.950+00:00Comments on John Wells’s phonetic blog: IsaacJohn Wellshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13684304410735867148noreply@blogger.comBlogger64125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-23048351317960621122020-06-23T11:20:16.011+01:002020-06-23T11:20:16.011+01:00Haloo pak^^
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Pelayanan CS yang ramah dan Proffesional dan pastinya sangat aman juga bisa anda dapatkan di Sentanapoker.yessy haryantohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16503331838637071246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-24723430798901272082012-09-21T17:50:57.368+01:002012-09-21T17:50:57.368+01:00Has it changed? My impression is that the pronunc...Has it changed? My impression is that the pronunciation with PRICE is British; that with FACE American. Has the FACE pronunciation been recently making headway in Britain? vphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16647609487352038948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-2600432167157911932012-09-21T17:30:39.068+01:002012-09-21T17:30:39.068+01:00On Biblical names, when did the pron of Isaiah cha...On Biblical names, when did the pron of Isaiah change from 'Ise eye yer'? to 'Ise eh yer? (I haven't worked out typing IPA yet.) And Naomi too? Now more like 'Nye O meh'?Clydesdale Jeffersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14631644050118490759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-16738395588876404272012-09-21T17:06:41.943+01:002012-09-21T17:06:41.943+01:00Aaron is another biblical name that has changed in...Aaron is another biblical name that has changed in the last, say, 30 years, isn't it?<br />On another point is the pron of "moot" as "mute" an example of Norfolk hypercorrection or is it becoming more general?Clydesdale Jeffersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14631644050118490759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-27516553466569231902012-08-30T21:57:57.905+01:002012-08-30T21:57:57.905+01:00What an excellent website! Thank you very much! ...What an excellent website! Thank you very much! I shall have hours of fun with this.Edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04081841460525341333noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-55502114454502578042012-08-30T21:03:48.560+01:002012-08-30T21:03:48.560+01:00Yes, I know exactly what you mean. I didn't w...Yes, I know exactly what you mean. I didn't word my initial comment well (which has been a common sin of mine lately). What I meant was that very few people have the three-way distinction of NORTH, FORCE and CURE. I believe that the vowel that you're referring to is used in CURE as well as in [parts of] FORCE. I might occasionally pronounce "door" with this vowel, but I would not use it in "course" or "court" as my grandmother does.<br /><br />However, I don't think that this is quite the same as a NORTH-FORCE split. For example, "sort" takes the diphthong in traditional Yorkshire dialect and that is a NORTH word.Edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04081841460525341333noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-36515057526796939522012-08-30T12:57:13.161+01:002012-08-30T12:57:13.161+01:00You can find links to many examples of Californian...You can find links to many examples of Californian and Canadian speech here:<br />www.aschmann.net/AmEng.<br />(note that all TRAP vowels are not /ä/ or /a/ in Californian English; like many other varieties of North American English, Californian too undergoes allophonic raising of /æ/ before nasals - so rat, trap and pass will have a different vowel than man, lamb and rang.)<br /><br />On the Canada issue, I have to say that geography does play a part in determining the extent of lowering and retracting of the TRAP vowel, but I lack the details; bottomline is: this vowel is more retracted and lowered in Canada than the rest of anglophone North America. One thing I can say, though, is that (based on my own amateurish research; want to get verified or corrected by a professional on Canadian accents) women are less prone to retracing this lowered variety of /æ/ than men, though lowering is, perhaps more common ang women.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11343068774549667364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-12594879265334754132012-08-30T12:14:54.871+01:002012-08-30T12:14:54.871+01:00There must be very, very few people left in Englan...<i>There must be very, very few people left in England who distinguish NORTH and FORCE.</i><br /><br />I don't know about that. I was born in the 1970s, and I have the distinction fairly consistently I believe (though not quite the exact traditional distribution). My impression is that quite a lot of people in South Yorkshire of my age and older have at least a hint of a higher and more diphthongal vowel in FORCE, if not the full blown traditional dialect vowel which sounds almost like GOOSE plus schwa (and can definitely still be heard).JHJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03257258313943639485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-81514707575564900132012-08-30T12:11:33.874+01:002012-08-30T12:11:33.874+01:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11343068774549667364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-23705498414244131782012-08-29T16:40:13.201+01:002012-08-29T16:40:13.201+01:00My! That is a surprise. Would you be able to pro...My! That is a surprise. Would you be able to provide a sound clip for this please? I'm not familiar with Californian accents at all.<br /><br />On the subject of Canada, is this for one specific part of the country?Edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04081841460525341333noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-8121563473860255042012-08-29T16:37:35.079+01:002012-08-29T16:37:35.079+01:00Correct, I have made an error. Thank you for poin...Correct, I have made an error. Thank you for pointing this out! <a href="http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=dqxExso-lG8C&printsec=frontcover&dq=pronunciation+of+english+daniel+jones&source=bl&ots=JzO7IHkXOq&sig=eFTWLK0Pjx3X4d7FZ6TmkQFsRtM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=bzY-UIOjI8em0QXW9IDgBQ&ved=0CD4Q6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=rising%20diphthong&f=false" rel="nofollow">This is what I meant to link to: pages 67 and 68</a>. However, I have a feeling that Duchesse de Guermantes might've written her post above after reading this book and thus it might not be of much use.Edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04081841460525341333noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-82002372387255306392012-08-29T16:03:49.747+01:002012-08-29T16:03:49.747+01:00You seem to have put the wrong URL in your link. I...You seem to have put the wrong URL in your link. It links back to this post.Ellen Kozisekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16856539181411664278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-9898796303754836562012-08-29T15:40:04.274+01:002012-08-29T15:40:04.274+01:00"I would say that they are often long, that t..."I would say that they are often long, that they are often diphthongal and that no American would ever say [a] in TRAP."<br /><br />The Californian shift in California (obviously!) and the Canadian shift lowers the TRAP vowel to a low-central vowel /ä/ (maybe slightly longer than in England or Scotland). So, [a] in TRAP is definitely a possibility in North America.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11343068774549667364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-63928390240549292462012-08-29T15:01:34.056+01:002012-08-29T15:01:34.056+01:00Although this is not the book in question, it is f...Although this is not the book in question, it is from the same year and by Daniel Jones. See pages <a href="http://www.phonetic-blog.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/isaac.html#comment-form" rel="nofollow">67 and 68 here!</a> He uses sets (1) and (4). <br /><br />I have not seen a modern phonetician transcribe "happier" as ˈhæpɪ̯ə either. Whether this represents a change in pronunciation or merely a change in how sounds are represented by symbols is another matter. This 1956 book by Jones still talks of the NORTH-FORCE distinction, which shows that the speech of England has changed much since it is written. There must be very, very few people left in England who distinguish NORTH and FORCE.Edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04081841460525341333noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-40430582445585690302012-08-29T12:51:23.531+01:002012-08-29T12:51:23.531+01:00If both the 1956 Outline of English Phonetics and ...If both the 1956 <i>Outline of English Phonetics</i> and <i>Falling and Rising Diphthongs in Southern English</i> exist as non-copyrighted PDFs, I would like to read them.Duchesse de Guermanteshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12198316853449400624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-84670559441262733872012-08-29T12:48:12.930+01:002012-08-29T12:48:12.930+01:00I must ask again about Daniel Jones's ĭə. He c...I must ask again about Daniel Jones's <b>ĭə</b>. He calls it, together with <b>ŭə</b>, a <i>rising diphtong</i> and lists the word <i>happier</i> as an example. There is also the classic <b>ɪə</b> for the word <i>clear</i>, which is a <i>falling diphthong</i>, one where "beginnings have greater prominence than their endings".<br /><br />I've never seen a phonetician transcribe <i>happpier</i> as <b>ˈhæpɪ̯ə</b>, which I guess is the modern translation of Jones's symbols. <br /><br />I don't have his 1956 <i>Outline of English Phonetics</i>, in which he apparently talks about it.<br /><br />It turns out that there are four sounds of the <b>iə</b> type:<br /><br />(1) the falling dipthong <b>ɪə̯</b> (present in LPD)<br />(2) the disyllabic sequence <b>i-ə</b>, with stress on the <b>i</b> (present in LPD)<br />(3) the disyllabic sequence <b>i-ə</b>, without stress on the <b>i</b> (is it there?)<br />(4) the rising diphtong <b>ɪ̯ə</b> (?)Duchesse de Guermanteshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12198316853449400624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-62179632567357928032012-08-29T10:23:32.218+01:002012-08-29T10:23:32.218+01:00No, I was saying it was not curious for her to ...No, I was saying it was not curious for her to 'call herself' something or other which she had, in fact, been called officially, when she claimed something from the government. In fact she probably did not call 'herself' so. Some authorities did. Or maybe this is the way things work in the US: you call yourself Hoinky Doinky or Gregory Z. Amburknage and file for Old Age Pension or such...?Podpora społeczeństwahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08339088245843399386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-11574235917423837572012-08-29T10:18:08.519+01:002012-08-29T10:18:08.519+01:00Thank you for the clarification. That makes sense...Thank you for the clarification. That makes sense now. Some of the symbols used in the article are different from those used today, so it takes a while to get my head around them.Edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04081841460525341333noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-42904988313644444332012-08-29T10:15:26.076+01:002012-08-29T10:15:26.076+01:00Nothing curious about O'Connor, but Ann is a f...Nothing curious about <i>O'Connor</i>, but <i>Ann</i> is a far from obvious choice. Presumably her naturalisation papers would read <i>Alisa</i> or <i>Alice</i>.<br /><br />If, however, it turns out that <i>Ann</i> was a name allotted to her by immigration authorities, that too would be curious.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-42147172259695633382012-08-29T08:24:48.665+01:002012-08-29T08:24:48.665+01:00why 'curiously'? I'd suppose in most c...why 'curiously'? I'd suppose in most countries it is normal to be called, say, 'Mark Twain' to one's audience and 'Samuel L. Clemens' to various authorities, bureaucracies, the State and such... have you any evidence that in the US this be not so?Podpora społeczeństwahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08339088245843399386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-576280021280378012012-08-29T08:17:18.114+01:002012-08-29T08:17:18.114+01:00Interestingly, the double 'a's in both wor...Interestingly, the double 'a's in both words discussed here: 'Isaac' and 'Canaan', have two different sources: the former: the (erstwhile) long Hebrew vowel [a:]: יִצְחָק yis.h.a:q, note the 'qamats'-pointing under the last-but-one (counting form r to l) letter, this is the [a:]. The latter, the 'ʕayin' letter with a short [a], כְּנָעַן k-schwa-na:-ʕayin-a-n.<br /><br />In 'Baal' it's too a ʕayin, I think. Baʕal. In 'Israel', by contrast, it was if I remember well a glottal stop (letter 'aleph') that separated the [a] from the [e], was it not?Podpora społeczeństwahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08339088245843399386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-45276020180136230592012-08-29T02:29:13.277+01:002012-08-29T02:29:13.277+01:00In the US, I've usually heard "Israel&quo...In the US, I've usually heard "Israel" sung as /ɪzraɪɛl/, but spoken as /ˈɪzriəl/<br /><br />In Engand, in English, both sung and spoken forms are usually /ˈɪzreɪəl/ (with a possibility of /ˈɪzreɪɛl/ in singing).vphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16647609487352038948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-43927938049042241342012-08-29T01:57:40.310+01:002012-08-29T01:57:40.310+01:00I've always sung it ɪzraɪɛl in that song (PRIC...I've always sung it <b>ɪzraɪɛl</b> in that song (PRICE in the 2nd syllable), and have never noticed it sung differently from that. Either of the two pronunciations you give seem wrong to me. Though I would not pronounce it the same way in speaking. I'd say basically what you have, though it seems to me a syllabic L rather than a schwa before the L. Singing it as I say it wouldn't work because the third syllable really doesn't have a proper vowel. Ellen Kozisekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16856539181411664278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-56569965219008211012012-08-28T23:35:10.975+01:002012-08-28T23:35:10.975+01:00Yes, sorry about that, I realised how clumsy that ...Yes, sorry about that, I realised how clumsy that was right after it was too late.<br /><br />I meant it was inside system A, where DRESS is rendered as <b>ɛ</b> (and so, Mr Starky is characterised as using the DRESS vowel for TRAP words). It was not system B, where DRESS is written <b>e</b>, and where <b>ɛ</b> is just a closer TRAP, but still not as close as the DRESS vowel.<br /><br />The point was that having "ɛ" for the TRAP set in 1954 didn't make you refained and beyond U if you mean the vowel in German <i>Bett</i> or French <i>bette</i> by it, only if you mean the vowel of 1954 U-RP DRESS.Phillip Mindenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16801818752833289089noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-67559431584505682022012-08-28T22:21:49.011+01:002012-08-28T22:21:49.011+01:00I presume that I didn't convey the meaning of ...I presume that I didn't convey the meaning of "refained speech" to Duchesse de Guermantes. Geoff Lindsey has written on it <a href="http://englishspeechservices.com/blog/?p=1" rel="nofollow">here</a>. It's also covered in Accents of English, page 302.<br /><br />Unfortunately, I don't follow Lipman's point. Mr. Starkey had TRAP equivalent to the DRESS of U speakers. That's quite clear from the article. I don't understand the part "while the DRESS vowel would be written as <b>e</b>". Are you saying that the DRESS vowel had changed in the period just before the article was written (1954) and that this should affect our interpretation? I'm very confused :(Edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04081841460525341333noreply@blogger.com