tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post4568860116924570604..comments2024-03-17T09:14:13.950+00:00Comments on John Wells’s phonetic blog: Fred Cassidy and JamaicanJohn Wellshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13684304410735867148noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-62545416175677808852010-07-05T15:13:00.446+01:002010-07-05T15:13:00.446+01:00Jamaican Creole descends from a reduced variety of...Jamaican Creole descends from a reduced variety of English, but it is not itself reduced in any way, any more than English is a reduced variety of German; it has the full capability of human expression that any language has. (It may need to borrow vocabulary for certain domains of discourse, but so has English and every other language.) And languages do not change as a result of the conscious efforts of their speakers: that's been known since the 19th century and earlier.John Cowanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452247999156925669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-83751544262817676152010-06-25T19:42:31.066+01:002010-06-25T19:42:31.066+01:00Isn't he/she a dirty rat?Isn't he/she a dirty rat?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-885288460639313612010-06-25T19:33:21.112+01:002010-06-25T19:33:21.112+01:00I like your style Mallamb, but I'm afraid it&#...I like your style Mallamb, but I'm afraid it's over my head. That's because I've neglected almost every aspect of language in favour of pronunciation (RP to be precise). And now you refuse to adjust to my vision of what the English speaking world should be!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-27138110799900695262010-06-25T16:28:56.645+01:002010-06-25T16:28:56.645+01:00What sort of unification is that? If it's a pr...What sort of unification is that? If it's a prestigious variety you're after, think of the prestige Mid-Atlantic could have! The rest of the English-speaking world would be clamouring for an opt-in!<br /><br />And what has been happening to unification, however prestigious, in Eastern Europe?mallambhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07086916400059545681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-7120567987401299502010-06-25T11:19:53.278+01:002010-06-25T11:19:53.278+01:00I was thinking more of RP, perhaps? It sounds nice...I was thinking more of RP, perhaps? It sounds nice to me, and I've been studying it too long now (for God's sake!)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-372667382345251372010-06-25T10:52:09.904+01:002010-06-25T10:52:09.904+01:00Like "Common-core" Irish? Or Israeli Heb...Like "Common-core" Irish? Or Israeli Hebrew? Or at a pinch Esperanto? (And I do know and love Esperanto.)mallambhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07086916400059545681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-14993360080968274672010-06-25T09:40:19.548+01:002010-06-25T09:40:19.548+01:00I agree, John, but again, don't you think that...I agree, John, but again, don't you think that artificially bringing a reduced variety (of a language) to the status of the most prestigious one is paradoxically unfair to the speakers of the former? If language is an arbitrary tool which developes arbitrarily, why not unify instead of disintegrate?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-60735551205469475272010-06-24T14:38:31.418+01:002010-06-24T14:38:31.418+01:00By 1500 it was no longer possible to regard French...By 1500 it was no longer possible to regard French as a less widely accepted variety of Latin, though certainly people who wanted to be understood outside France were still writing in Latin. French as French had been in existence for seven centuries. The question was not the validity of the French language as an object, but as a subject of study.<br /><br />Certainly there is no reason (and no likelihood) of feeling humiliated because you use Standard English. But there is no reason to feel humiliated because you use a different language such as Jamaican Creole either.John Cowanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452247999156925669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-70805602899331744592010-06-23T18:51:04.448+01:002010-06-23T18:51:04.448+01:00John, would you say that the inevitable fragmentat...John, would you say that the inevitable fragmentation of Latin (if it ever existed "one" Latin) was preferable to its survival? Do people need to feel humiliated when they stick, in the appropriate circumstances, to the most widely accepted varieties of THEIR OWN mother tongue?<br />I think it would be wonderful if we could all speak the same language (English or any of the corrupted by-products from Latin).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-89993392308131319152010-06-23T16:55:55.118+01:002010-06-23T16:55:55.118+01:00Five hundred years ago, Anonymous, Frenchmen were ...Five hundred years ago, Anonymous, Frenchmen were wondering why anyone would want to <i>study</i> French as opposed to just speaking it. After all, wasn't Latin the appropriate language of scholarship, to the point where "knowing grammar" and "knowing Latin" were synonymous?John Cowanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452247999156925669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-19192150121452241342010-06-23T16:15:04.946+01:002010-06-23T16:15:04.946+01:00@ Anonymous: Why don't you say who you are bef...@ Anonymous: Why don't you say who you are before making any accusations, you dirty rat!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-43393428890289426932010-06-23T12:57:53.173+01:002010-06-23T12:57:53.173+01:00I don't think studying JC (or any other subjec...I don't think studying JC (or any other subject) should be seen as strange, but isn't it a bit unfair to mislead people by charitably and artificially changing tags? Weren't ordinary Jamaicans right in their instinctive views about appropriateness?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com