tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post527910359793564915..comments2024-03-17T09:14:13.950+00:00Comments on John Wells’s phonetic blog: die Londoner U-BahnJohn Wellshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13684304410735867148noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-75399020590634678622020-06-12T10:17:19.478+01:002020-06-12T10:17:19.478+01:00Haloo pak^^
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I first got it wrong, 'Goldene Kaschemme', where it in fact is or was 'Goldkrug', or non-dangerous, as with 'Sopot Kamienny Potok', where I was in the habit of loudly exclaiming 'Zoppot Steinbach' to 'my' Germans in the carriages of our metropolitan railway, 'Steinbach' being the name of a German politician once widely feared in Poland. (My late mother was concerned I might get a beating for saying 'Steinbach' under such circumstances, which I never did.) But (next to) always is it entertaining. And like (next to) all things entertaining, a bit silly, too. Mr Prilinger has, obviously, resources to indulge in such.<br /><br />Full true name --- see Google ProfilePodpora społeczeństwahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08339088245843399386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-20135492860649464102013-02-08T11:28:33.303+00:002013-02-08T11:28:33.303+00:00There's more in the way of cross-language cart...There's more in the way of cross-language cartography from Mr Prillinger at<br />http://homepage.univie.ac.at/horst.prillinger/metro/m/v-italian.jpg<br />(the Viennese metro in Italian).<br />Compare his map of the real thing at<br />http://homepage.univie.ac.at/horst.prillinger/metro/m/largemap.html<br /><br />This appears to be less jokey than his Londoner Untergrund map (though it perhaps contains jokes I don't get), but it still has a lot to interest the amateur philologist.<br /><br />For instance I was intrigued by Via del Paese sullo Stagno < Gumpendorfer Straße. What was the etymology of that Gumpendorf toponym?<br /><br />If my researches are correct then <i>Gumpe</i> (which means a pool -- i.e. a part of a river where the water runs very slowly because of a deep hollow in the stream bed) is a cognate of the English <i>coomb</i> (alias <i>comb, combe, coombe</i>) -- a short valley or deep hollow. A Gumpe is wet and a coomb is dry, but the essential idea of a hollow is the same.<br /><br />Now <i>coomb</i> is one of those famous few words which the arriving English are said to have "borrowed" from the already settled British in the aftermath of the Anglo-Saxon invasions. (Collins gives the etymology "Old English <i>cumb</i> (in place names), probably of Celtic origin; compare Old French <i>combe</i> small valley and Welsh <i>cwm</i> valley".) I'd never heard of any Continental cognates but now, having consulted the Grimms' Deutsches Wörterbuch online and the Trésor de la Langue Française informatisé, I see both suggesting Celtic antecedents for, respectively, <i>Gumpe</i> and <i>combe</i> (in the latter case: Gaulish <i>*cumba</i>, meaning a valley in general). So now I'm wondering: did the Anglo-Saxons already know a word like <i>coomb</i>, which was merely reinforced by their contact with the Brythonic antecedent of <i>cwm </i><br /><br />In any case, in my projected English-language version of the Vienna U-Bahn Gumpendorfer Straße will feature as ...Cumthorp Street.<br /><br />Kevin FlynnKevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10718209592445394736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-54855755662781620582013-02-08T11:11:49.132+00:002013-02-08T11:11:49.132+00:00This comment has been removed by the author.Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10718209592445394736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-34678808034920273442013-02-07T09:00:28.898+00:002013-02-07T09:00:28.898+00:00Some early spellings have Upping, and the origin i...Some early spellings have <em>Upping</em>, and the origin is thought to be <em>yppingas</em>, ‘upland dwellers’, referring to <a href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=51.7209&mlon=0.0912&zoom=14&layers=M" rel="nofollow">this settlement</a>.Steve Doerrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18210787261745134371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-63376983734034648232013-02-06T22:22:26.398+00:002013-02-06T22:22:26.398+00:00York has a very large number of roads that end in ...York has a very large number of roads that end in -gate, but it can be found in many other areas. The eastern areas of England were colonised by Danes, and the use of "gate" in this sense is one of the remnants.<br /><br />Another is the suffix -thorpe for a village. This can be found in Yorkshire, the East Midlands and East Anglia: the areas that the Danes colonised. If you were to go back a hundred years, <a href="http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/Misc/Books/BritishWorkman/BritishWorkman12.html" rel="nofollow">you'd find more similarities than there are today</a>.<br /><br />Ed AveyardEdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04081841460525341333noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-53768965942898875402013-02-06T22:09:08.750+00:002013-02-06T22:09:08.750+00:00When I saw "Gruendorf", I wonder if -wic...When I saw "Gruendorf", I wonder if -wich were the equivalent of -thorpe or -thwaite in other areas of the county. However, Wikipedia says that -wich denotes a place on the bay or near the mouth of a river.<br /><br />Why is Epping represented as "Huegeldorf"? This translates literally as "hill village"? Is Epping a hilly place? It doesn't look very hilly on a map.<br /><br />Ed AveyardEdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04081841460525341333noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-11882822602701081952013-02-06T21:35:19.389+00:002013-02-06T21:35:19.389+00:00As an English speaker living in Berlin, I often en...As an English speaker living in Berlin, I often entertain myself by translating local U-Bahn station names into English. Rosenthaler Platz becomes Rosedale Square, Birkenstraße becomes Birch Street, Turmstraße becomes Tower Street, and so forth. I didn't know other people enjoyed the same game!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-28774630364536375852013-02-06T15:38:34.271+00:002013-02-06T15:38:34.271+00:00expressive lenghtening?
What I have in my ears i...expressive lenghtening? <br /><br />What I have in my ears is this dry, matter-of-factly 'dag meneer', let's proceed to the usual business of our coffiemaatschappij... while what you are quoting sounds like the North-German 'Taach'.<br /><br />There is a poem by Toon Hermans in which he says: there are many loners, that's all right (het mag), <br /><br />maar kom je ze tegen<br />zeg dan op z'n minst even: dag<br /><br />if you cross your paths with one of them, say at least 'hullo'. <br /><br />It's funny to think that a Dutchman saying 'dag' is wishing his addressee 'have a day', not necessarily a nice one, but: just have it. That's what I mean by 'sober': don't expect too much of your days, just live them. But your 'daag' has certainly a different import.<br /><br />true name --- see Profile Podpora społeczeństwahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08339088245843399386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-29278322716291258362013-02-06T15:13:47.627+00:002013-02-06T15:13:47.627+00:00 Ad Войчех·em:
1.
It is true that the vowel of t... Ad Войчех·em:<br /> 1.<br /> It is true that the vowel of the Dutch noun <em>dag</em> ‘day’ is short and almost completely back, so this remark of yours was not among your <a href="http://phonetic-blog.blogspot.com/2013/02/polish-spoken-here.html?showComment=1360135299702#c5327437533872780699" rel="nofollow">alleged 66% of jocular contributions</a>.<br /> However when used as an interjection <em>(tussenwerpsel)</em> the vowel of <em>dag</em> may be extremely long and rather front.<br /> This is reflected in <a href="http://www.vandale.nl/opzoeken?pattern=dag&lang=nn" rel="nofollow">the Van Dale entry for dag</a>:<br /><br /> <strong>¹dag</strong> <em>(de; m;</em> meervoud: <em>dagen;</em> verkleinwoord: <em>dagje of daagje)</em><br /> [...]<br /><br /> <strong>²dag</strong> <em>(tussenwerpsel)</em><br /> <strong>1</strong> groet <em>(ook</em> dag!, dáág!, dááág!<em>)</em><br /><br /> 2.<br /> According to the OED <em>gate</em> ‘opening’ is from ON. <em>gat</em> whereas <em>gate</em> ‘way’ is from ON. <em>gata.</em><br /><br /> Charlie RulandAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-34228393230201444942013-02-06T15:06:44.737+00:002013-02-06T15:06:44.737+00:00Thank you, John :)
full name ---- see ProfileThank you, John :)<br /><br />full name ---- see ProfilePodpora społeczeństwahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08339088245843399386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-36582100561530133452013-02-06T12:28:39.584+00:002013-02-06T12:28:39.584+00:00"homestead or village of a man called '*D..."homestead or village of a man called '*Dæcca'". In 677 AD recorded as Dæccanham.John Wellshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13684304410735867148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-2629689709314408592013-02-06T12:16:27.541+00:002013-02-06T12:16:27.541+00:00So what IS (since it is not 'Day's ham'...So what IS (since it is not 'Day's ham') the etymology of Dagenham?<br /><br />Full name ----> see ProfilePodpora społeczeństwahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08339088245843399386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-3771290322522146952013-02-06T12:07:44.587+00:002013-02-06T12:07:44.587+00:00Gate meaning 'street' is common over much ...<i>Gate</i> meaning 'street' is common over much of England and Scotland, particularly where the Danes were. Well to the south of York, there are many <i>Gates</i> in Nottingham. There's also a <i>Bar</i> where a gate used to be. I have a memory of a <i>Victoria Gate</i> in Leicester, but I also have a memory of being told that I'd got it wrong.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-55226735313320502252013-02-06T11:45:35.269+00:002013-02-06T11:45:35.269+00:00Thank you Thomas Widmann, you have widened my know...Thank you Thomas Widmann, you have widened my knowledge (talking about things narrow).<br /><br />As a general comment: I sort of feel John is a bit unfair to poor Mr. Prilinger when he calls some of his translations 'ridiculous'. I think Prilinger's is typically German humour which, like Justice Wolsey's pornography, cannot be defined but can be recognised for what it is when come across. Well, attempting a definition: it's mocking German pedantry (by a German!), a school-teacheresqe attitude (Oberlehrehaftigkeit), and sarcastic driving-to-the-extreme (with intentional errors like 'schinken' for 'ham') of the days-of-yore German tendency to Germanise whatever comes their way (Rundfunk, Fernsehen, Fernmeldegeraet and what not). I too sometimes indulged in this kind of humour sending someone to 'Ochsenfurt' (Oxford) or referring to a medieval English philosopher Richard Swineshead as 'R. Schweinshaupt'. So a better word would be perchance 'trying to be funny the German way' or just 'funny' (keeping the rest 'im Hinterkopf', your hind-cup) rather than 'ridiculous'....<br /><br />Full name ----> see my Profile (Google)Podpora społeczeństwahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08339088245843399386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-31242949526098638522013-02-06T11:34:32.191+00:002013-02-06T11:34:32.191+00:00I have heard 'dag meneer, dag mevrouw, graag g...I have heard 'dag meneer, dag mevrouw, graag gedaan' and such-like, in perhaps somewhat artificial contexts, and I must say I quite liked the 'dry and sober' (though not unfriendly, but friendly the Dutch way) tone in which they were said. (Especially contrasted with their French _Urbilder_: bonjour monsieur, etc.).<br /><br /><br />Anyway, compare the North-German greeting 'Taach' with your 'dag' --- I mean first of all in the vowel-length...<br /><br />Full name --- ProfilePodpora społeczeństwahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08339088245843399386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-65757931868103856822013-02-06T11:09:40.671+00:002013-02-06T11:09:40.671+00:00That must be "mocking" of course...That must be "mocking" of course...Kilian Hekhuishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01084720179158650652noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-83756961913782445492013-02-06T11:09:07.108+00:002013-02-06T11:09:07.108+00:00I don't think I've ever said "dag men...I don't think I've ever said "dag meneer", unless in a micking way :) Also never thought of Dutch as dry, sober or concise, for that matter...Kilian Hekhuishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01084720179158650652noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-5769784611409947852013-02-06T11:07:52.285+00:002013-02-06T11:07:52.285+00:00If you go to York, many of the old streets are cal...If you go to York, many of the old streets are called <i>gates</i>. In Scots, <i>gate</i> is/was a normal word for street (the <a href="http://www.dsl.ac.uk/" rel="nofollow">DSL</a> defines <i>gate</i> as "a way, road, path, a street (now esp. in street and farm-names, e.g. Canongate, Trongate, Gallowgate, Overgate, Gateside); “a narrow road, a footpath”, a narrow, fenced road").Thomas Widmannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00556092637506486689noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-32171768399938104992013-02-06T10:08:44.244+00:002013-02-06T10:08:44.244+00:00Concerning Moorgate --- I am not sure if 'moor...Concerning Moorgate --- I am not sure if 'moor' here is 'bog', 'swamp', or something like it, but if yes, I'd think it would be Moorgasse in German, there are many 'Gassen' in Germany called so, rather than 'Moorengasse' (which, however, is met-with in D too).<br /><br />Has 'gate' ever mean 'street' in English? It means 'narrow street' or such in German, 'Gasse', and simply 'street' in Scandinavian ('gata' in Sw., Icel. and Faroe., partly Norwegian, 'gate' Norwegian, 'gade' Danish, there was a Danish composer so called).<br /><br />'Dag' indeed in Dutch, with a short, back a, like in 'father' only short and backer. Unlike German, Dutch did not have lengthening before single consonants in late Middle Ages. In plural it's 'dagen', with a long, frontish a. 'Dag meneer!' as they say, in their dry, sober, concise way, two long vowels would be to much....\<br /><br />Well, someone should tell them -ham is their '-heim' or '-em'... but that would be kill-joy-like, wouldn't it?<br /><br />Full name --- see Google ProfilePodpora społeczeństwahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08339088245843399386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-39400264502816129552013-02-06T09:18:27.946+00:002013-02-06T09:18:27.946+00:00As always I enjoy reading your blog. Today I spott...As always I enjoy reading your blog. Today I spotted one minor error: the Dutch word for 'day' is 'dag', not 'daag'.<br /><br />Tim WigboldusGrunnenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02457479965954119258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-46521757773535755082013-02-06T08:44:28.505+00:002013-02-06T08:44:28.505+00:00That's tickled me on my way to work, will use ...That's tickled me on my way to work, will use it with my German students today. Lizzlovesaccentshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09400129483730611008noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-36784882017855843792013-02-06T08:13:54.903+00:002013-02-06T08:13:54.903+00:00I'd guess that Wimbledon is or might be from a...I'd guess that <i>Wimbledon</i> is or might be from a name resembling or cognate with <i>Wunibald</i>. The suffix is surely OE <i>don</i> 'hill, down'.John Cowanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452247999156925669noreply@blogger.com