tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post6002418020740011185..comments2024-03-17T09:14:13.950+00:00Comments on John Wells’s phonetic blog: Questions, questionsJohn Wellshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13684304410735867148noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-65589867276275318192009-08-14T13:17:20.258+01:002009-08-14T13:17:20.258+01:00Really? Is that "North East" as in Nort...Really? Is that "North East" as in Northumberland? <br /><br />I have lived almost all my life in Yorkshire, and I have never heard it, although I am aware from dialect literature that it was once used in this area. Also, I've never heard it in the media or from visits further north in the country.<br /><br />At the very least, I think Britannica could have come up with more widespread features of Northern speech to use in its article. They should've got Professor Wells to write the article.Edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04081841460525341333noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-85526005192492677362009-08-13T20:07:04.991+01:002009-08-13T20:07:04.991+01:00"Find" or blind with /ɪ/ is very much al..."Find" or blind with /ɪ/ is very much alive in the North East of England, at least, but this does not stretch to "grind" or any other similar word.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-57074253249914286522009-08-11T17:50:17.770+01:002009-08-11T17:50:17.770+01:00@Amy Stoller: yes, it does say /i/ rather than /ɪ/...@Amy Stoller: yes, it does say /i/ rather than /ɪ/; I got that wrong. Either way, this pronunciation is not used in the North of England anymore, not even by the very "broadest" speakers. It doesn't seem to be on many of the SED recordings, which suggests that it died out some time ago. You are right that the dialectal form in -ight is still heard, but this is a long vowel /i:/ whereas the vowel in "blind, find, etc." was a short /ɪ/ or /i/.<br /><br />Mr. Wells talks about the phoneme /t∫/ today. Britannica says that /k/ is often used in place of this phoneme in the North of England: another very out-of-date claim by the encyclopedia. How many Northerners go to the "kirk" anymore?Edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04081841460525341333noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-91085706088958982862009-08-11T15:57:22.976+01:002009-08-11T15:57:22.976+01:0026 May:
"yes"<a href="http://phonetic-blog.blogspot.com/2009/05/pltc-2009.html" rel="nofollow">26 May</a>:<br />"yes"Jens Knudsen (Sili)https://www.blogger.com/profile/14078875730565068352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-84099097850152965852009-08-11T08:03:14.300+01:002009-08-11T08:03:14.300+01:00@Sili: "I seem to recall that you answered th...@Sili: "I seem to recall that you answered the last of the unanswerable questions in a recent post." What? Whether Professor Wells is a man?!de cuuphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16498514660234870861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-2685926323204217712009-08-11T00:55:52.377+01:002009-08-11T00:55:52.377+01:00@Ed: Actually, what Britannica says is "In th...@Ed: Actually, what Britannica says is "In the words bind, find, and grind, the RP pronunciation of the vowel sound is /ai/, like that in “bide”; in some Northern accents, it is /i/, like the sound in feet."<br /><br />So, not [blɪnd] but [blind]. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that vowel in words with "igh" in the spelling, e.g., "right" pronounced as "reet" - but "find" as "fiend"? I'm not an expert on all varieties of Northern English English, but I have a modicum of familiarity with a few of them, and all I can say is it's a new one on me.<br /><br />Regardless of the accuracy or lack of same on that particular issue, you are right, the whole article is a hot mess.Amy Stollerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14067839246823753590noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-79365388500976987422009-08-10T22:12:20.062+01:002009-08-10T22:12:20.062+01:00You can never satisfy everyone with English-langua...You can never satisfy everyone with English-language phonetics. The LPD explains everything quite fully: it's almost a text book of linguistics. Also, it's good that you did polls on pronunciations.<br /><br />For an example of failure to explain modern English phonetics, I would suggest the Britannica article on the English language in the UK http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/188048/English-language/74816/Varieties-of-English#ref603953 They think that people in the North of England still say "find" and "blind" as /fɪnd/ and /blɪnd/. I don't understand how that is still in Britannica.Edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04081841460525341333noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-51923831761017092422009-08-10T21:06:28.399+01:002009-08-10T21:06:28.399+01:00That's what rude geeks would say. :-)That's what rude geeks would say. :-)Phillip Mindenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16801818752833289089noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-77012576040996488312009-08-10T20:38:42.191+01:002009-08-10T20:38:42.191+01:00And not so politely: RTFM
I seem to recall that y...And not so politely: RTFM<br /><br />I seem to recall that you answered the last of the unanswerable questions in a recent post.<br /><br />Welcome back, by the way. Even though it feels odd to welcome you to your own place ...Jens Knudsen (Sili)https://www.blogger.com/profile/14078875730565068352noreply@blogger.com