tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post7254618727352149176..comments2024-03-17T09:14:13.950+00:00Comments on John Wells’s phonetic blog: spell it out (cont.)John Wellshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13684304410735867148noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-82158268706305016202020-06-13T10:42:23.793+01:002020-06-13T10:42:23.793+01:00Haloo pak^^
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Pelayanan CS yang ramah dan Proffesional dan pastinya sangat aman juga bisa anda dapatkan di Sentanapoker.yessy haryantohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16503331838637071246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-47252623650030600482020-05-21T09:35:22.078+01:002020-05-21T09:35:22.078+01:00I want to tell a secret to those of us; who their ...I want to tell a secret to those of us; who their relationship/ marriage is going into misery beyond repair. And first before I begin, I want to first assure you readers, that there is no situation without a solution. Don’t leave that your horrible marriage you are almost fed up with…instead of running, why not stand to fight peace into it?? There is no strong marriage that has true love that is without a fight, and there is also no marriage that is without the experience of sweet and sour. With the one I experience, that I thought it’s finished there is nothing anybody can do about it. It’s was so hopeless to that level that I never believe it can be restored back again. God directed me to and open my eyes that those errors and mistakes in marriage if been corrected, these are the things that makes a strong marriage. With Dr Osebor, I was able to get him back, after 2yrs of total separation. During before that time I got him back…I have no life without him and can’t imagine myself laying into another man arms after I have already spend so much years in a relationship with my husband before we now finally got married with the help of the great Dr Osebor…and that was when I noticed, that we women, we are the cause of most of our problems. And I want to give you an insight prove for that…most of our ladies are lucky with good men who truly have love in their heart; and almost of them don’t the value gift of a good man. while others, are sorrowing love over a man who doesn’t love them. Please, readers. If you read this comment and you have been facing sorrow with your love one’s, I want to tell you that, the end of that sorrow and misery is done. Dr Osebor, is the key you need to open every close doors of happiness, rejoice, love and satisfaction into that your relationship. I will help you by leaving his email below” contact him and cry to him for help. and let him help you to get out of that misery you don’t belong to.( oseborwinbacktemple@gmail.com } you can also call or what sapp him on( +2348073245515 ) that's his direct email and what sapp number and contact and he will reply back and help you with whatever problems you want him to help you with. And please be obedient to follow instructions.. thanks to you once again Dr Osebor the trustful person and the great father of love.<br />his email again oseborwinbacktemple@gmail.com for Whats App +2348073245515allenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12495008675126883097noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-43777968648214637592020-05-21T09:35:01.649+01:002020-05-21T09:35:01.649+01:00I want to tell a secret to those of us; who their ...I want to tell a secret to those of us; who their relationship/ marriage is going into misery beyond repair. And first before I begin, I want to first assure you readers, that there is no situation without a solution. Don’t leave that your horrible marriage you are almost fed up with…instead of running, why not stand to fight peace into it?? There is no strong marriage that has true love that is without a fight, and there is also no marriage that is without the experience of sweet and sour. With the one I experience, that I thought it’s finished there is nothing anybody can do about it. It’s was so hopeless to that level that I never believe it can be restored back again. God directed me to and open my eyes that those errors and mistakes in marriage if been corrected, these are the things that makes a strong marriage. With Dr Osebor, I was able to get him back, after 2yrs of total separation. During before that time I got him back…I have no life without him and can’t imagine myself laying into another man arms after I have already spend so much years in a relationship with my husband before we now finally got married with the help of the great Dr Osebor…and that was when I noticed, that we women, we are the cause of most of our problems. And I want to give you an insight prove for that…most of our ladies are lucky with good men who truly have love in their heart; and almost of them don’t the value gift of a good man. while others, are sorrowing love over a man who doesn’t love them. Please, readers. If you read this comment and you have been facing sorrow with your love one’s, I want to tell you that, the end of that sorrow and misery is done. Dr Osebor, is the key you need to open every close doors of happiness, rejoice, love and satisfaction into that your relationship. I will help you by leaving his email below” contact him and cry to him for help. and let him help you to get out of that misery you don’t belong to.( oseborwinbacktemple@gmail.com } you can also call or what sapp him on( +2348073245515 ) that's his direct email and what sapp number and contact and he will reply back and help you with whatever problems you want him to help you with. And please be obedient to follow instructions.. thanks to you once again Dr Osebor the trustful person and the great father of love.<br />his email again oseborwinbacktemple@gmail.com for Whats App +2348073245515allenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12495008675126883097noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-3537566944801699682019-12-01T09:18:07.680+00:002019-12-01T09:18:07.680+00:00Do you want to know how to tell if your phone is t...Do you want to know how to tell if your phone is tapped by police? There are some serious sign. THis <a href="https://topspyingapps.com/how-to-tell-if-your-phone-is-tapped-by-police/" rel="nofollow">https://topspyingapps.com/how-to-tell-if-your-phone-is-tapped-by-police/</a> would help you to spot them.Taylor Barahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04054776280759216446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-31228897278346698542012-11-05T14:44:13.054+00:002012-11-05T14:44:13.054+00:00I know, didn't mean to demonise tweets and tex...I know, didn't mean to demonise tweets and texts. Children probably read more than ten years ago, and the advice to go out and play rather than sit at home and read has been heard about books, too.<br /><br />(Phillip Minden)Phillip Mindenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16801818752833289089noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-86185001680324201412012-11-05T14:42:15.070+00:002012-11-05T14:42:15.070+00:00I'm with David Crosbie on sulphur.
(1) I'...I'm with David Crosbie on sulphur. <br /><br />(1) I'm 50, and have spelt it with -ph- all my life, and I doubt anyone can persuade me to change my spelling. But this is presumably not a major issue. We can just let the older generation stick to their old ways until the newer generation takes over.<br /><br />(2) I see that my daughter's textbook has sulfur, sulfate, etc. However, I have yet to see sulfur, etc. used in a literary context in any British publication. All British versions of, say Revelation 19:20, use 'sulphur'. It looks as if we will have 'sulfur' for chemistry and 'sulphur' for literary use. Not quite as tidy as planned.Peter Tanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02871546762671752664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-91637484400345008092012-11-05T13:36:38.140+00:002012-11-05T13:36:38.140+00:00Lipman
On the other hand, tweeting and texts expo...Lipman<br /><br />On the other hand, tweeting and texts expose young people to a great many instances of traditional spelling.<br /><br />Crystal, in a TV comedy show(!) and in a book called <i>Txtng The Gr8 Db8</i> has argued that the rise of texting in children has had a positive effect on literacy.<br /><br />Texting and tweets won't do much for a spelling like <i>rhubarb</i>. But if the spelling is stable elsewhere, then digital spellings will encourage a virtuous cycle of successful communication.<br /><br />The accusation that children transfer the like of <i>gr8</i> and <i>db8</i> into their school work is a myth.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-25631238824165777352012-11-05T08:05:40.817+00:002012-11-05T08:05:40.817+00:00If you wish to muscle in on the debate, you MUST G...If you wish to muscle in on the debate, you MUST GIVE YOUR TRUE FULL NAME. "John" will not suffice.John Wellshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13684304410735867148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-8115762503767883022012-11-05T06:50:43.206+00:002012-11-05T06:50:43.206+00:00Relying on exposure has to take account of non-tra...Relying on exposure has to take account of non-traditional spellings in tweets and texts.Phillip Mindenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16801818752833289089noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-84198993098755744402012-11-05T01:54:12.396+00:002012-11-05T01:54:12.396+00:00John
What tells the writer whether it 'looks ...John<br /><br /><i>What tells the writer whether it 'looks right' or not is exposure, which, I would argue, comes mainly from reading.</i><br /><br />I'm sure you're right. That's why I'm sure this important strain in the teaching of spelling has to <b>follow</b> the teaching of reading. But perhaps not by such a great a delay. In the paragraph i quoted, Crystal goes on to observe:<br /><br /><i>Children develop an ability to tell the difference between a correct and an incorrect spelling very early, especially when the word is part of their everyday visual experience.</i><br /><br />But, even as adults, we don't always know what we know. Children are too often too aware of what they don't know, and so hesitate to apply the test of recognition. It's for the teacher to encourage them to respect and use their existing knowledge. In the final sentence of the book, Crystal goes further and encourages all of us to apply the recognition test:<br /><br /><i>And it's a valuable strategy for adults too, whether native speakers or foreign learners.</i><br />David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-28491315241327608062012-11-05T01:50:46.728+00:002012-11-05T01:50:46.728+00:00This comment has been removed by the author.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-70208420023258594592012-11-04T22:50:31.434+00:002012-11-04T22:50:31.434+00:00Hi David,
As I said, my response to the discussion...Hi David,<br />As I said, my response to the discussion was a necessarily simplistic one and I wouldn't want to claim that any programme to teach reading and spelling could be based on sound alone. <br />Your point about 'window' is a good one. The more complex element in the spelling <br />of 'window' is the sound /oe/, here written as . What tells the writer whether it 'looks right' or not is exposure, which, I would argue, comes mainly from reading.<br />Now, although reading and writing are, in my opinion, two sides of the same coin, spelling is always going to be more difficult. This is because reading is more more about recognition memory, whereas spelling is based on recall memory, potentially more difficult when there are many ways of spelling a sound.<br />I also feel that reading and writing are best taught together because, for young children, writing words and saying the sounds as they write them is very helpful in enabling them to remember how to spell them.<br />Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13315146014179526480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-60619403672591238452012-11-04T20:21:54.703+00:002012-11-04T20:21:54.703+00:00John
I take the line that there's a differenc...John<br /><br />I take the line that there's a difference between learning actual spellings of actual words and learning strategies for educate guesses for unknown words.<br /><br />I also subscribe to the view that young children should write what they <b>choose</b> to write. The teacher's job may well be to motivate the communicative goal, but the forms used to convey the message should be up to the young student. <br /><br />So, my ideal would be to postpone any teaching of spelling until after children had (with teacher's help) become accustomed to writing a substantial number of words — i.e. substantial enough to allow for generalisations. They would, of course, be capable of reading those words, with help if necessary.<br /><br />The task is shaped in Britain by the universal insistence on early synthetic phonics. This makes the teaching of a large number of words a simple matter of re-visiting the phonics used in teaching the children to read the words in question. Hopefully, this would be done with words that made sense to the young writer — unlike one controversial element of teaching reading by phonics.<br /><br />Crystal actually comes out against teaching based <b>exclusively</b> on sound. In his final paragraph he writes:<br /><br /><i>How do you write a word like <b>window</b> asks a child? 'Find the letters by sounding it out' is a familiar answer, but the results on paper need to be followed by "Does it look right?'.</i>David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-18420081896906314512012-11-04T18:46:48.002+00:002012-11-04T18:46:48.002+00:00I'd like to muscle in on this very interesting...I'd like to muscle in on this very interesting debate but from a completely different angle: that of teaching young children to read and spell from the moment they enter school.<br />Crystal is bang on the button when he maintains that any system of teaching spelling has to be based on linguistics but, as has been remarked, he doesn't offer any insight into what such a system might be.<br />A system which works very well and has something in common with Ken Albrow's 'three systems of English spelling' in his book The English Writing System (1972), is one based on the sounds of the language. Basing the system on the sounds of the language is key because there are a finite number of sounds and they provide a firm anchor on which to build.<br />If children are taught that the squiggles on the page we call letters (I prefer 'spellings') 'stand for/represent' the sounds in our speech, as long as one has a system of teaching which goes from simple to complex, it is easily possible to teach English spelling to a very high level of proficiency in a relatively short period of time (Key Stage 1 – Key Stage 2).<br />To start with, teach one-to-one sound spellings in the context of real CVC words; gently add in two letters-one sound in CVC words (, , and ); gradually increase the complexity of the structure of the words to CVCC, CCVC, CCVCC, etc; teach that sounds can be spelled in more than one way; and, teach that most spellings can 'stand for/represent' more than one sound. In parallel, polysyllabic words can also be introduced in a way that is commensurate with the rest of the programme.<br />None of the above needs to be taught in the abstract and children should be given extensive practice in the three fundamental skills of blending, segmenting and phoneme manipulation as they are learning how we spell the sounds in the language and how the system works. If taught in this way - and obviously I simplify greatly here - reading and spelling go hand-in-hand.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13315146014179526480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-88569630427099520212012-11-04T12:59:12.645+00:002012-11-04T12:59:12.645+00:00From the Wikipedia entry on the Shorter Oxford Eng...From the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shorter_Oxford_English_Dictionary" rel="nofollow">Wikipedia entry on the Shorter Oxford English Dictionary</a>:<br /><br />On September 21, 2007 16,000 words lost their hyphens in a 6th edition of the Shorter Oxford English Dictionary. Angus Stevenson, editor of the Shorter OED, stated the reason: "People are not confident about using hyphens anymore, they're not really sure what they are for." Its researchers reviewed 2 billion words (in newspapers, books, Web sites and blogs from 2000). Bumble-bee is now bumblebee, ice-cream is ice cream and pot-belly is pot belly, etc.Mitko Sabevhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05716261390693316374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-41756916097302144122012-11-04T12:05:40.629+00:002012-11-04T12:05:40.629+00:00As a matter of fact, the 'biopic' posting ...As a matter of fact, the 'biopic' posting (several postings below) shows that hyphens or if you will hythens are anything but useless in English, even for native speakers. Bio-pic, strap-hanger, bi-gram, mini-series, sun-dried ... you name'em, gentlemen. 'Misled' seems to be a special case; though I'd rather risk my reputation and spell it 'mis-led' to avoid misintepretation. 'Today' is certainly too well known to deserve this treatment...<br /><br />True name: see ProfilePodpora społeczeństwahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08339088245843399386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-56593867897133546932012-11-04T08:22:54.249+00:002012-11-04T08:22:54.249+00:00Yes, I got your point, don't worry. The word &...Yes, I got your point, don't worry. The word 'Spaghetten' if it really exists (never seen or heard) is probably next to never written (except perhaps in some silly internet forums or blogs) so it falls below consideration. Looks like Italian mocking of German grammar to me ('pizzen o spaghetten o gnocchen' -- the first one I know, it sort of makes sense as 'pizza' is a singular, the other two I do not know, though I know 'gnocchis', substandard, double plural).<br /><br />Actually, the German spelling reform was a success in one respect; it settled the issue of long vowels infront of a [s]. The latter is henceforth spelt 'ß' if the vowel is long, and 'ss' elsewhere. Before the reform it was a sorry mess. But I must agree with you that legislating on such matters is ungrateful; I myself have never understood, let alone implemented, the 'recommendations' of the new spelling. But then, I have never really made friends with (with a voiceless 'th') 'today', 'tonight', 'tomorrow' or 'bygone' either, let alone with 'getatable', 'getalongwithable' or 'dispensewithable'. With such hyphenless constructs, English has a chance of developing into a truly agglutinative language. But as we know, \-less', '-ness', '-hood', '-ship' and such-like used to be words in their own right in the daysofyore, and today their just suffixes.<br /><br />BTW, have a look at this: http://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/Spaghetti<br /><br /><br />True name: see ProfilePodpora społeczeństwahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08339088245843399386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-45575959184704330192012-11-04T02:07:50.316+00:002012-11-04T02:07:50.316+00:00Wojciech
There does seem to be an unofficial form...Wojciech<br /><br />There does seem to be an unofficial form <i>Spaghetten</i> which I didn't realise was unofficial.<br /><br />The point I wanted to make relates to the actual attempt to change <i>Spaghetti</i> to <i>Spagetti</i>.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-1439884284658880672012-11-04T01:51:22.247+00:002012-11-04T01:51:22.247+00:00John Cowan
I take it that the 'short word'...John Cowan<br /><br />I take it that the 'short word' rule is the same as the rule that words are spelled with at least three letters.<br /><br />British English is just as happy to break the rule, for a manageably small number of two-letter spellings. We accept <i>ad, Ma</i> and <i>Pa</i> as readily as Americans do. Ditto <i>ed</i> and <i>co</i>, and we're no less open to <i>en</i> and <i>em</i> spaces, and letter names in general. And words from other languages are not meddled with, so we don't write of the <i>ego</i> and the <i>*idd</i>, nor of Greek letters <i>*mue, *nue, *pie</i>. Plus, the rule seems never to have applied to exclamation-words.<br /><br /><i>Ax</i> is either a great rarity or it's unique in being standard in one region only.<br /><br />If I were teaching young children to spell, I'd have a wall-chart permanently displayed with 'all' the common two-letter spellings.<br /><br /><i>an, as, at, be, do, go, he, if, in, is, it, me, no, of, on, or, so, to, up, we</i><br /><br />would do for a start. I don't think it helps to classify these as<i> 'not content'</i> words. It's an <b>extremely</b> difficult term to explain to people who don't yet know these spellings. The point is that they're extremely common words. OK that's because they're not content words, but there's a small number of common words like <i>ad</i> and a growing number of uncommon words like <i>yu</i>.<br /><br />A teachable version of the rule is that no words are spelled with two letters <b>except for</b> <br />• a learnable list of extremely common words<br />• a learnable class of clippings<br />• a learnable class of family terms<br />• a learnable class of letter names<br />• a learnable class of exclamation-words<br />• an open class of foreign words like <i>id</i> which will need to be learned singly — in small numbers, unless you're an ambitious Scrabble player<br />David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-40994745507752071742012-11-03T20:39:09.002+00:002012-11-03T20:39:09.002+00:00Ad Ed Aveyard
I should not say that the 'hyth...Ad Ed Aveyard<br /><br />I should not say that the 'hythens' in such words as 'to-morrow' or 'to-day' of my school-days are quite functionless. For foreign learners, such as myself, they are useful in that they remind them of the etymology of the word and facilitate the 'coming to terms' both meaning- and pronunciationwise with the word. Same goes for 'likeable' rather than 'likeable', John's example.<br /><br />Ad David Crosbie<br /><br />I don't wanna be pedantic, but to the very best of my knowledge (I am in part germanophone) the words 'spagetten' or 'spaghetten' do not exist in German, either traditional or reformed. 'Spaghetti' or 'Spagetti' si, 'spag(h)etten' no, --- for aught I know.<br /><br />labial fricative voiced consonant; mid-back rounded vowel; alveolo-palatal voiced approximant consonant; alveolo-palatal fricative voiceless consonant; mid-front unrounded vowel; fricative velar non-palatal voiceless consonant; END OF GIVEN NAME retroflex (they say, but I can't believe it) fricative voiced consonant; mid-front unrounded vowel; labiovelar voiced approximant consonant; open central unrounded vowel; alveolo-palatal nasal voiced consonant; mid-front unrounded vowel; dental affricate voiceless consonant; END OF SURNAME. Podpora społeczeństwahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08339088245843399386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-74250338421516285192012-11-03T16:23:20.857+00:002012-11-03T16:23:20.857+00:00AmE seems to resist the "short word rule"...AmE seems to resist the "short word rule" to some extent, notably with the spelling <i>ax</i> and the clipping <i>ad</i> (rather than <i>advert</i>) as well as <i>Ma</i> and <i>Pa</i>. The OE word <i>ea</i> 'watercourse', still surviving in Lancashire, is interesting as the native representative of PIE <i>*akwa-</i>, as far as I know the only one in English other than <i>island</i>. Of course, there are also a raft of fairly obscure two-letter borrowings, from <i>aa</i> 'stony rough lava' to my favorite,<i>yu</i> 'ancient Chinese wine bucket'.<br /><br />See <a href="http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:English_two-letter_words" rel="nofollow">Wiktionary</a> for more.John Cowanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452247999156925669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-18439316536601479592012-11-02T22:01:34.086+00:002012-11-02T22:01:34.086+00:00I am a variable TH-fronter. I think that I do it m...I am a variable TH-fronter. I think that I do it more often for /θ/ than for /ð/, and more often word-medially.Edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04081841460525341333noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-33365192489774867832012-11-02T21:30:40.534+00:002012-11-02T21:30:40.534+00:00IUPAC now allows flexibility; We (British) can sp...IUPAC now allows flexibility; We (British) can spell it "sulphur" and the Americans "sulfur". This also applies to "caesium" (Br) or "cesium" (Am) and "aluminium" (Br) or "aluminum" (Am), though the latter case is actually a different word with different stress.<br /><br />Tudor Hughes. tudorhghhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10389864536677778569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-57144909693158772592012-11-02T21:16:33.126+00:002012-11-02T21:16:33.126+00:00This comment has been removed by the author.Edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04081841460525341333noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-48184441989621438912012-11-02T20:14:25.853+00:002012-11-02T20:14:25.853+00:00Not so bizarrely if you're down with the kids ...Not so bizarrely if you're down with the kids - Paramore are a band.Alexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01773966173117509466noreply@blogger.com