tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post875867867730052616..comments2024-03-17T09:14:13.950+00:00Comments on John Wells’s phonetic blog: parliamo italianoJohn Wellshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13684304410735867148noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-79053068940850513212014-04-06T11:06:41.074+01:002014-04-06T11:06:41.074+01:00This comment has been removed by the author.Sean Fearnleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15511353147572935011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-63426898497538239342013-08-04T20:13:14.141+01:002013-08-04T20:13:14.141+01:00In English the Italian/Spanish/Russian-type "...In English the Italian/Spanish/Russian-type "single trill" (monovibrante) is termed a tap, not a trill. This blog is written in English, and in English a trill involves multiple contacts. If there is only a single contact, we call it a tap.John Wellshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13684304410735867148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-84029546588678696172013-08-04T13:26:54.594+01:002013-08-04T13:26:54.594+01:00@Guido y los freaks
A "single trill" is...@Guido y los freaks<br /><br />A "single trill" is usually defined as a tap (or sometimes a flap).vphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16647609487352038948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-27196532603966790642013-08-04T06:55:19.049+01:002013-08-04T06:55:19.049+01:00Actually it is supposed that Italian r is always a...Actually it is supposed that Italian r is always a trill. A single trill when written r and a double trill when written rr. A flap only occurs as an allophone of r. Guido y los freakshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16617784728044975235noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-22524689724870326232010-07-02T23:03:55.684+01:002010-07-02T23:03:55.684+01:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Rocinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-41972038445919331142009-08-15T17:46:13.043+01:002009-08-15T17:46:13.043+01:00Both languages have the contrast between tap and t...<i>Both languages have the contrast between tap and trill in intervocalic position, e.g. Spanish </i>pero<i> vs. </i>perro<i>, Italian </i>caro<i> vs. </i>carro.<br /><br />I don't understand why the term "tap" is so commonly used in this context – isn't that supposed to denote some kind of short plosive?<br /><br />The intervocalic single <i>r</i> of Spanish and (AFAIK less reliably) Italian is a one-contact trill, as far as I can tell: a trill that is so short that only one bubble of air is squeezed through. The <i>rr</i> is a long trill, with four or five contacts in Spanish depending on the speaker. (The amount of contacts in a trill is controlled only by for how long the articulators are held at the right distance, so it should indeed be considered length rather than repetition.)<br /><br />Of course, in Spanish, this is the only length contrast in the entire sound system (...while Italian distinguishes consonants by length all over the place...). This makes it unsurprising that phonologists try to interpret /r/ and /rː/ as being distinguished in some other way (...and indeed, they aren't articulated in exactly the same place).<br /><br />But I really don't think using the same symbol as for the AE flap is a good idea. It's voiced, alveolar, short, and central (as opposed to lateral), but that's where the similarities end.David Marjanovićnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-1583134457269580022009-07-28T22:09:16.823+01:002009-07-28T22:09:16.823+01:00John Wells writes "Both languages have the co...John Wells writes "Both languages have the contrast between tap and trill in intervocalic position, e.g. Spanish pero vs. perro, Italian caro vs. carro.", and I am reasonably confident that Catalan has a similar distinction. The reason I make this assertion is that some 30 years ago, I addressed Xaro, the Catalan wife of a Canadian friend, and inadvertently extended the duration/trill of the "r" in her name. Her eyes flared, and she asked "Why do you call me Xarro ?". "I'm sorry", I said, "I thought that was your name". "No", she replied, "my name is Xaro : please remember that." To this day I do not know what ?xarro? means in Catalan, but I suspect it is at best an insult and at worst an obscenity ...Chaa006https://www.blogger.com/profile/00007714578401273047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-69849981300860952009-07-15T07:39:26.770+01:002009-07-15T07:39:26.770+01:00I was taught single r in Italian tapped, double r ...I was taught single r in Italian tapped, double r rolled, which reflects the longer paused quality of all double consonants in Italian. It, however, has nothing to do with intelligibility since there are many varied and contrasting regional realisations of r which are not tapped or rolled, but remained doubled. ( eg areas such as Parma and Piemonte with a French r ; Sicily with nearly archaeic interdental fricative r, and ex-President Scalfaro and Gianni Agnelli, both with variations of lip-rounded r.glenmichaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06805089159401119750noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-68832928634652538442009-07-14T22:04:54.677+01:002009-07-14T22:04:54.677+01:00I think these phrase books should be accompanied b...I think these phrase books should be accompanied by a mental health warningAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-21311872664649014882009-07-14T16:08:22.343+01:002009-07-14T16:08:22.343+01:00Acute! I keep forgetting that word and just callin...Acute! I keep forgetting that word and just calling it "aigu".Jens Knudsen (Sili)https://www.blogger.com/profile/14078875730565068352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-56628657563679431312009-07-14T14:59:08.515+01:002009-07-14T14:59:08.515+01:00I think the writer's diffuse impression refers...I think the writer's diffuse impression refers to the higher frequency of the Spanish trilled r. But it could just as well have been sparked by the shortness of the vowel in front of even the "simple" r.Phillip Mindenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16801818752833289089noreply@blogger.com