tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post3459370497628121283..comments2024-03-17T09:14:13.950+00:00Comments on John Wells’s phonetic blog: allegedly agedJohn Wellshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13684304410735867148noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-35363573905938875022020-07-11T13:23:02.681+01:002020-07-11T13:23:02.681+01:00Will you become our next big winner? like, Laptop,...Will you become our next big winner? like, Laptop, Car, Cash, Or more. Enter in our free online sweepstakes, Free online Giveaways and Free Online contests, Don't Miss your Chance. Hurry!<br /><a href="https://sweepstakes-online.com/giveaways/" title="List of Latest Online Giveaways 2020 | Sweepstaeks-Online" rel="nofollow">List of Latest Online Giveaways 2020 | Sweepstaeks-Online</a><br /><a href="https://sweepstakes-online.com/my-sweepstakes/" title="List of Current Online Sweepstakes 2020 | Sweepstaeks-Online" rel="nofollow">List of Current Online Sweepstakes 2020 | Sweepstaeks-Online</a><br /><a href="https://sweepstakes-online.com/" title="Sweepstakes-Online.com | Sweepstaeks-Online" rel="nofollow">Free Online Sweepstakes, Free Online Giveaways | Sweepstaeks-Online</a><br /><a href="https://sweepstakes-online.com/discover-eat-it-forward-program-sweepstakes/" title="Discover Eat It Forward Program Sweepstakes | Sweepstakes-Online" rel="nofollow">Discover Eat It Forward Program Sweepstakes | Sweepstakes-Online</a><br /><a href="https://sweepstakes-online.com/sweetwater-sound-drum-kit-giveaway/" title="Sweetwater Sound Drum Kit Giveaway | Sweepstakes-Online" rel="nofollow">Sweetwater Sound Drum Kit Giveaway | Sweepstakes-Online</a><br /><a href="https://sweepstakes-online.com/tripadvisor-staycation-sweepstakes-2020/" title="Tripadvisor Staycation Sweepstakes 2020 | Sweepstakes-Online" rel="nofollow">Tripadvisor Staycation Sweepstakes 2020 | Sweepstakes-Online</a><br /><a href="https://sweepstakes-online.com/att-prepaid-sweepstakes-2020/" title="AT&T Prepaid Sweepstakes 2020 | Sweepstakes-Online" rel="nofollow">AT&T Prepaid Sweepstakes 2020 | Sweepstakes-Online</a><br /><a href="https://sweepstakes-online.com/holiday-stationstores-scratch-and-match-sweepstakes/" title="Holiday Stationstores Scratch And Match Sweepstakes | SweepStakes-Online" rel="nofollow">Holiday Stationstores Scratch And Match Sweepstakes | SweepStakes-Online</a>sweepstakes-onlinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15911081846621337758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-86276098475887921582020-06-12T08:32:59.365+01:002020-06-12T08:32:59.365+01:00Shareit is the best file sharing application avail...Shareit is the best file sharing application available on PC.<br /><a href="https://www.shareitforpcappdownload.com/shareit-for-pc/" rel="nofollow">SHAREit for PC</a><br /><a href="https://www.shareitforpcappdownload.com/shareit-for-jio-phone/" rel="nofollow">Shareit for Jio Phone</a><br /><a href="https://www.shareitforpcappdownload.com/shareit-for-android/" rel="nofollow">SHAREit for Android</a><br /><a href="https://www.shareitforpcappdownload.com/shareit-for-mac/" rel="nofollow">SHAREit for Mac</a><br /><a href="https://www.shareitforpcappdownload.com/shareit-for-windows-phone//" rel="nofollow">SHAREit for Windows Phone</a><br /><a href="https://www.shareitforpcappdownload.com/shareit-for-blackberry/" rel="nofollow">SHAREit for Blackberry</a>Starkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13041780401358410712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-29788471101083636342020-01-18T08:23:02.569+00:002020-01-18T08:23:02.569+00:00I don't really get it, if you want to share a ...I don't really get it, if you want to share a quiz, visit <a href="https://shareitdownload.net/" rel="nofollow">SHAREit</a>,<a href="https://shareitdownload.net/" rel="nofollow">SHAREit apk</a>emilyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09035598217394247538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-10215340911269782292011-09-20T18:00:45.648+01:002011-09-20T18:00:45.648+01:00I appreciate your being aware of how burdened I am...I appreciate your being aware of how burdened I am, but I seem to still welcome burdens, so I'm game for this. Thanks for the fun.<br /><br />I could agree that the expression "<i>agèd </i>cheese" implies that the cheese ag'd rather than that it was ag'd (whether by a process or by a person or persons). You don't by any chance mean that it grew "<i>agèd </i> under its own steam, do you? That again would probably be the inedible under a facetious name.<br /><br />An agèd person is indeed somebody above a certain, or rather a considerable, age, or facetiously described as so being, as I describe myself as born agèd, i.e. agèd ag'd a minute, give or take. And yes, that is a fully-fixed convention and therefore lexical. But "an ag'd person" to mean someone who used to look or act younger is unidiomatic. You can of course say that person has ag'd terribly. And yes, to the extent that ag'd still is the regular form of the verb with its different connotations, we can be terribly ag'd, but very agèd rather than very ag'd, to use the commutation test I proposed above. Agèd people may not age badly at all, so we may say they haven't ag'd much at all since they were eighty, even if they are ag'd 100.<br /><br />Both agèd and learnèd are lexical oddities, and their survival helps to understand parallelisms such as my "studied answer" above, and make them less puzzling. The trouble is they are obsolescent, as John noted in some fairly recent blog entry, I think. I seem to remember he was taken aback at the realization of how current the monosyllabic pronunciations of these words had become. LPD3 doesn't recognize this, nor do I think it should yet:<br />aged ‘very old’ ˈeɪdʒ ɪd -əd; §eɪdʒd <br />learned adjective ‘scholarly', ‘well-informed' ˈlɜːn ɪd -əd ǁ ˈlɝːn əd <br /><br />but unfortunately the informants for all the relevant sound files apart from the US for 'learnèd' haven't got that message.mallambhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07086916400059545681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-23726935098178153122011-09-20T08:36:43.982+01:002011-09-20T08:36:43.982+01:00I'm sorry I did after all burden you unnecessa...I'm sorry I did after all burden you unnecessarily - I had understood all of that from your previous comment, and I still think the expression "aged cheese" implies that the cheese aged rather than that it was aged. In fact, if somebody tries to sell me one that <i>has been</i> aged, I might think he took a young gouda, microwaved it to make it dry and painted it with something salty.<br /><br />The difference might rather already lie between uses for people. And agèd person is somebody above a certain age, and an ag'd person is someone who used to look or act younger, in other words, <i>agèd</i> is less connected to the development of aging and is used as a lexified adjective meaning "elderly", while <i>ag'd</i> still is the regular form of the verb with its different connotations.Phillip Mindenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16801818752833289089noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-28752450812640147752011-09-20T00:34:09.707+01:002011-09-20T00:34:09.707+01:00A cheese attains to the state of 'being aged&#...A cheese attains to the state of 'being aged' by 'having been aged'. If it hasn’t been aged, it's not even called aged, because it's just old or even inedible. <br /><br />The difference between a learnèd book and a learn'd/learnt book is like the difference between a studied response (which this isn’t very) and a studied response (which I demur to expect this to be). A book or response by someone who's done the learning or studying, and a book or response that is learnt or studied [by the learner or studier]. The "intransitive" agèd and learnèd are just oddities which are not replicated in the parallel expressions. I grant that it takes a bit of imagination to see 'studied' as a parallel sort of "intransitive", which is why I wasn’t happy relating it to transitivity or ergativity or anything. You can even say "I have studied my reply with great care" and still mean that you have given a lot of thought to writing it, rather than to reading what you have written! Commutation tests demonstrate the context-sensitivity of the allosemy: a reply is either very studied as a book may be very learnèd, or unenthusiastically studied as a book may be unenthusiastically learnt.mallambhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07086916400059545681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-4785205920190515702011-09-19T21:33:30.733+01:002011-09-19T21:33:30.733+01:00I don't want to burden you unnecessarily, but ...I don't want to burden you unnecessarily, but I think 'aged' is used in the same way for cheese as for people, just metonymically. I don't think the idea is that cheese has "been aged" ot the like.<br /><br />There's certainly a difference in these matter between a learnèd book and a learn'd/learnt book.Phillip Mindenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16801818752833289089noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-80373245848309073122011-09-19T21:25:05.265+01:002011-09-19T21:25:05.265+01:00Even learnèd people can have learn'd responses...Even learnèd people can have learn'd responses and agèd people can have ag'd cheeses. You only have to ask whether the pp is of the intransitive or the transitive verb. I could explain it better than by 'intransitive or transitive', but only in tedious detail.mallambhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07086916400059545681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-12420173233858510262011-09-19T21:05:53.633+01:002011-09-19T21:05:53.633+01:00Yes. Agèd cheese goes well with elderly port, does...Yes. Agèd cheese goes well with elderly port, doesn't it?Phillip Mindenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16801818752833289089noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-1275177869613520142011-09-19T20:47:21.858+01:002011-09-19T20:47:21.858+01:00For me, disyllabic aged has an archaic flavor, and...For me, disyllabic <i>aged</i> has an archaic flavor, and belongs to persons only: <i>an aged cheese</i> would be monosyllabic unless I were personifying the cheese.John Cowanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452247999156925669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-63159366933142968252011-08-01T22:42:30.538+01:002011-08-01T22:42:30.538+01:00And gentlemen in England now a-bed
Shall think the...And gentlemen in England now a-bed<br />Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,<br />And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks<br />That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-90238982589080308982011-07-31T22:13:05.750+01:002011-07-31T22:13:05.750+01:00Trisyllabic alleged sounds a bit like American pol...Trisyllabic <i>alleged</i> sounds a bit like American police report language. Not normal AmE "the alleg'd perpetrator went into the house" but "thee allegèd perpetrator did go into thee house."Phillip Mindenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16801818752833289089noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-71800605651661032272011-07-31T18:44:41.089+01:002011-07-31T18:44:41.089+01:00John (It's not August yet, so I'm hoping I...John (It's not August yet, so I'm hoping I may yet address this to you)<br /><br />I'm glad we agree about the <b>aʊɪ</b> in <b>əˈvaʊɪdlɪ</b>. Your treatment of 'ploughing' does seem to be anomalous as long as you don't allow for monosyllabicity in the other examples you give here, or even in the analogous <b>ˈbaʊ ɪŋ</b>. But I hoped you would have some observations to report about my "haɪˈpaːd compressors whose pronunciation of -ed would give əˈvaʊədlɪ" not being so likely to compress the <b>aʊə</b> in <b>əˈvaʊədlɪ</b> (as the <b>aʊə</b> in <b>ˌhaɪˈpaʊəd</b>, of course, or more to the point, in <b>kaʊədlɪ</b>). I really don't think I have ever heard <b>aː</b>or anything approaching it for the <b>aʊə</b> in <b>(ʌn)əˈvaʊədlɪ</b> or <b>əˈlaʊədlɪ</b> (in which the èd seems to be even more obligatory). I can't imagine compression with <b>(ʌn)əˈvaʊədnəs</b> either. I know the markèdness of this –ed makes the sequence a bit of a rarity in this context, but why shouldn't it be subject to compression? It can't be the morphology of it, as we experience no resistance to compressing 'allowably' or even 'now and then'.mallambhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07086916400059545681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-64285719322064511222011-07-31T04:35:05.786+01:002011-07-31T04:35:05.786+01:00Very interesting! I always had doubts about the pr...Very interesting! I always had doubts about the pronunciation of "blessed".Silhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06466548295091605957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-1704866033444741242011-07-30T00:08:37.075+01:002011-07-30T00:08:37.075+01:00Neckedy
And the diacritics are good — without cha...Neckedy<br /><br />And the diacritics are good — without changing font or keyboard. Just hold down a vowel letter (or <b>c</b> or<b> l</b> or<b> n</b> or <b>s</b> or <b>z</b>) and take your pick.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-49388673322198090542011-07-29T18:26:12.444+01:002011-07-29T18:26:12.444+01:00I'm with nedecky - trisyllabic alleged is very...I'm with nedecky - trisyllabic alleged is very common in my world (I write about legal affairs, in the US.)Lanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07308878857835663236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-68123434385064319872011-07-29T17:23:50.527+01:002011-07-29T17:23:50.527+01:00Yes, I agree that aʊɪ is rather resistant to compr...Yes, I agree that <b>aʊɪ</b> is rather resistant to compression. For example, I'm not really happy with <i>ploughing</i> as a monosyllable (despite what I put in LPD). But <i>trying, crying, dying</i> as monosyllables seem much easier, and so are <i>going, knowing, throwing</i>.John Wellshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13684304410735867148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-60802611162521541182011-07-29T16:30:11.731+01:002011-07-29T16:30:11.731+01:00John,
Does this syllabic pronunciation of –ed give...John,<br />Does this syllabic pronunciation of –ed give you the impression of not being so subject to smoothing and compression as the sort of aʊə sequences discussed under "our cake"? It does me, but I can't tell from my own pronunciation as I always have ɪd for it. I do smooth əˈvaʊɪdlɪ a bit, but that's not a candidate for compression. Do even the most ˌhaɪˈpaːd compressors whose pronunciation of –ed would give əˈvaʊədlɪ ever go so far as to compress it?<br /><br />I felt sure I'd usually seen "Our blest redeemer, ere he breathed", and Google has 11,500 hits for that, with only 1,100 for "Our blessed redeemer, ere he breathed".mallambhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07086916400059545681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-47572671555753249902011-07-29T15:55:56.988+01:002011-07-29T15:55:56.988+01:00And what did you write and mean – "armed vehi...And what did you write and mean – "armed vehicle" or "armoured vehicle"? And have you found anyone to pronounce either of them ˈɑːmɪd ˈviːɪkl̩? If "armoured vehicle" I think it would serve the purposes of this topic better if you could find anyone to pronounce it ˈɑːmərɪd ˈviːɪkl̩. Not simple for me.mallambhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07086916400059545681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-45174856166029316782011-07-29T15:43:26.797+01:002011-07-29T15:43:26.797+01:00No, mallamb. I know that you're the reader of ...No, mallamb. I know that you're the reader of minds always on duty per excellance, but no, I meant what I wrote. Simple.Duchesse de Guermanteshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12198316853449400624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-49550091153315251622011-07-29T15:33:12.078+01:002011-07-29T15:33:12.078+01:00I think you must mean ˈɑːməd ˈviːɪkl̩ (armoured ve...I think you must mean ˈɑːməd ˈviːɪkl̩ (armoured vehicle). Even 'armed' can't be ˈɑːmɪd, whether as in 'one-armed' (as opposed to 'one-leggèd') or as in the usually pleonastic 'armed gunmen' of the media.mallambhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07086916400059545681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-53244196007391012182011-07-29T14:41:32.636+01:002011-07-29T14:41:32.636+01:00My favourite example is ˈɑːmɪd ˈviːɪkl̩.My favourite example is <b>ˈɑːmɪd ˈviːɪkl̩</b>.Duchesse de Guermanteshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12198316853449400624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-8817277378777030572011-07-29T14:12:07.428+01:002011-07-29T14:12:07.428+01:00I think "alleged" as three syllables is ...I think "alleged" as three syllables is quite common in North America. It sounds more normal to my ears than the two-syllable version.<br /><br />Incidentally, I've just updated to the Lion new OS on my Mac, and am pleasantly surprised to see Character Viewer expanded to include Unicode 6.0.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-78265145353623914682011-07-29T11:15:04.145+01:002011-07-29T11:15:04.145+01:00Legged.
Or, rather, NUMBER-legged (one-leggèd, th...Legged.<br /><br />Or, rather, NUMBER-legged (<i>one-leggèd, three-leggèd</i>). With adjectives it seems unpredictable. <i>Long-leggèd</i> is, i think, fairly common, but not <i>short-leggèd</i>.<br /><br /><b>Not</b>, of course, *<i>We leggèd it</i>.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-65131904596992332792011-07-29T10:16:46.998+01:002011-07-29T10:16:46.998+01:00An area near here on the gulf coast is called '...An area near here on the gulf coast is called 'Forked Island', and I've only ever heard the first word pronounced as ˈfɔːɹkɛdAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com