tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post5907303042195539239..comments2024-03-17T09:14:13.950+00:00Comments on John Wells’s phonetic blog: how to hissJohn Wellshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13684304410735867148noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-70876725963927260082020-04-06T14:16:22.738+01:002020-04-06T14:16:22.738+01:00Excellent topic how to hiss.Excellent and decent p...Excellent topic how to hiss.Excellent and decent post. I found this much informative, as to what I was exactly searching for. Thanks for such post and please keep it up. The <a href="https://www.yallacleaning.com/cleaning-dubai/" rel="nofollow">Cleaning Company in Dubai</a> provides good service of cleaning.Albert Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16495200707192480843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-60370373280006400982019-11-21T20:36:43.353+00:002019-11-21T20:36:43.353+00:00Hello! I just need you to look here and tell me yo...Hello! I just need you to <a href="https://spying.ninja/" rel="nofollow">look here</a> and tell me your opinion.Taylor Barahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04054776280759216446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-41007391231889124132011-04-13T16:01:15.513+01:002011-04-13T16:01:15.513+01:00If I remember correctly, Hewlett and Beck's In...If I remember correctly, Hewlett and Beck's Introduction to the Science of Phonetics describes the laminar articulation of /s/ as involving anchoring the tip of the tongue behind the lower teeth and raising the blade to the alveolar ridge (which is where the reference to lower teeth come in). I think they also say that their informal surveys show the laminar articulation to be more common in the UK.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-38449250050102639502011-04-12T22:58:23.319+01:002011-04-12T22:58:23.319+01:00Could someone please explain in articulatory terms...Could someone please explain in articulatory terms how exactly does s̪ differ from the usual /s/ in English?Andrej Bjelakovićnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-69193032691921755492011-04-12T21:48:41.667+01:002011-04-12T21:48:41.667+01:00I feel that what Hammer might have meant when he w...I feel that what Hammer might have meant when he wrote about the tip of his tongue placed behind his bottom teeth was that he necessarily brought his lower jaw up, so that his tongue would generally be quite close to the floor of the mouth. MGAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-76031517571534053892011-04-12T20:01:03.537+01:002011-04-12T20:01:03.537+01:00Sidney
I asked my wife Elena, a native speaker of...Sidney<br /><br />I asked my wife Elena, a native speaker of Russian, where she point the tip of her tongue for /<b>s</b>/. She said <i>towards the back of the top teeth</i>. She uses the same sound speaking English. This accords with the description by <b>Daniel Jones</b> and <b>Dennis Ward</b> in <i>The Phonetics of Russian</i>.<br /><br />'<i>(1) articulating organs</i>: blade of tongue near back part of teeth-ridge, without making complete contact; the tip of the tongue is either pointing towards the upper front teeth, lying under the middle part of the teeth-ridge or is lowered to the base of the lower front teeth;'<br /><br />However, Elena's perception differs from what Jones & Ward describe for 'soft' /<b>sʲ</b>/. She feels that the tip of her tongue is pointing upward towards the palate. But Jones and Ward write:<br /><br />'(1) <i>articulatory organs</i>: blade of tongue near back part of teeth=ridge, without making complete closure; front of tongue simultaneously raised towards thethe hard palate; tip of tongue lowered to a position behind the base of the lower front trrth or pointing towards the gap between the upper and lower teeth;'<br /><br />The second point in Jones & Ward descriptions seems pretty uncontroversial:<br /><br />/<b>s</b>/<br />'(2) <i>state of-air passage</i>: narrowed at the place of primary articulation, i.e. between blade of tongue and teeth-ridge so that friction is produced by the air-stream as it passes through the gap;'<br /><br />/<b>sʲ</b>/<br />'(2) <i>state of-air passage</i>: narrowed at the place of primary articulation (i.e. between blade of tongue and teeth-ridge), fairly narrow at place of secondary articulation (i.e. between the front of tongue and hard palate);'David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-16487110847282945582011-04-12T18:09:45.494+01:002011-04-12T18:09:45.494+01:00The thread has also sidestepped into apical/lamina...The thread has also sidestepped into apical/laminal articulations generally. I also used to check this in classes. Most had apical dental/alveolar stops, a few had laminal. The difference is similar to that between palatalized dentals (the laminals) and non-palatalized dentals (the apicals), the pharynx also being wider for palatalized and laminal versions. Both work in, say, English. It would be interesting to know how speakers of Russian do it - they presumably have to constrain their apical and laminal articulations. Gunnar Fant (The Acoustic Theory of Speech Production, Mouton, 1960) has x-rayed profiles and computations for the Russian consonants.Sidney Woodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01138711082469220983noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-12952134253113370012011-04-12T18:06:52.264+01:002011-04-12T18:06:52.264+01:00Leo
Yes, that was a typo muddle.
I could produce...Leo<br /><br />Yes, that was a typo muddle.<br /><br />I could produce a demonstration <b>/ksθs/</b> for the benefit of students, but generally I share your difficulty. I can however manage the singular/ordinal — which, it seems, more and more people are reducing to <b>sɪkθ</b>.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-18374239637390239472011-04-12T17:47:59.039+01:002011-04-12T17:47:59.039+01:00This is an evergreen question. It keeps coming bac...This is an evergreen question. It keeps coming back. I used to check all my beginning phonetics classes, mostly Swedish students with a few others from elsewhere. I forget the proportions now, but a good majority reported tip behind lower teeth, and a few with the tip raised. The action is nevertheless a variant of laminal, the blade is trough-shaped and turbulence is created as explained by John above. The spot among the upper teeth that produces the best hiss differs individually, the palatogram quoted by John shows it is off centre.Sidney Woodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01138711082469220983noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-44199280633036502372011-04-12T16:12:02.758+01:002011-04-12T16:12:02.758+01:00I pronounce t,d,n,l apically and s,z laminally.I pronounce <b>t,d,n,l</b> apically and <b>s,z</b> laminally.John Wellshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13684304410735867148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-28451080977788139332011-04-12T15:27:46.281+01:002011-04-12T15:27:46.281+01:00David Crosbie - I assume you really mean the /ksθs...David Crosbie - I assume you really mean the <b>/ksθs/</b> cluster of <i>6ths</i>? I don't think I've ever produced that in my life!Leohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04023787332836734901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-22948430833233294012011-04-12T15:05:01.137+01:002011-04-12T15:05:01.137+01:00I think I can articulate /s/ either with either ap...I think I can articulate /s/ either with either apical or laminal restriction but with a tendency to prefer apical for more energetic articulation.<br /><br />My front teeth are not my own and one crown is bent forward following what could be called a 'heavy bread accident'. Perhaps one of my articulations is a recently learned compensation.<br /><br />I may be deceiving myself, but I seem to find the <b>/sksθ/</b> cluster of <i>6th</i> easier with apical articulation.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-32635836106116948712011-04-12T14:40:29.039+01:002011-04-12T14:40:29.039+01:00Very interesting. My /s/ is laminal, and I've...Very interesting. My /s/ is laminal, and I've always had the sense that this is unusual for American English speakers. At the very least, of the (few) people I've been able to ask to figure out which they use, I've never found another American English speaker who has a laminal /s/. Do you have any sense of whether the laminal articulation is more common across English as a whole, or might it be that apical /s/ is more common in American English?<br /><br />One last question: you mentioned that laminal /s/ is more common; does this extend to other alveolars as well? All of my alveolars are laminal, and I definitely feel like this is not typical, at least for American English.Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13845139257399756782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-28777071334189661592011-04-12T13:43:29.783+01:002011-04-12T13:43:29.783+01:00Neither ausbau nor abstand is in the OED. Fortunat...Neither <em>ausbau</em> nor <em>abstand</em> is in the <em>OED</em>. Fortunately, <em>umbrella</em> is.Steve Doerrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18210787261745134371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-65626154041848925162011-04-12T12:26:52.120+01:002011-04-12T12:26:52.120+01:00Ad John
We were discussing things not directly co...Ad John<br /><br />We were discussing things not directly connected with the topic of your last entry (Scottisch vowels), but since I was one of the 'culprits', I feel obliged to mention the following:<br /><br />1. this is what happens with many blogs of this sort (linguistic in nature, let us say), if my experience is any reliable. One has to go whither the wind takes us (Plato, The Republic, III, 349d.)<br /><br />2. this shows that your topic was an 'ausbau' topic ... .<br /><br />3. and eventually, much of that ausbau, umbrella and other stuff IS connected with your Scottish vowels, as it shows their relevance for deciding what is ausbau, umbrella and what not. At least for Scottish.<br /><br />I dunno if this brings any comfort, hope so, though.Podpora społeczeństwahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08339088245843399386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-71537309783308169232011-04-12T10:31:42.332+01:002011-04-12T10:31:42.332+01:00Yep, my /s/ is laminal too. I speak "General...Yep, my /s/ is laminal too. I speak "General American". As John says, the important thing is that you keep /s/ distinct from /θ/ and /ʃ/. <br /><br />I think apical /s/ might be part of what gives people a Dutch accent when they speak English, if you're worried about that kind of thing. Some native English speakers imitate this accent by substituting /ʃ/ for /s/, but really that isn't accurate as far as I know.Phil Smithnoreply@blogger.com