tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post8085127756405441738..comments2024-03-17T09:14:13.950+00:00Comments on John Wells’s phonetic blog: inputting accented lettersJohn Wellshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13684304410735867148noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-45521466117162410632019-04-03T23:45:03.688+01:002019-04-03T23:45:03.688+01:00ḝ was used in ISO 259 for transliteration of Hebre...ḝ was used in ISO 259 for transliteration of Hebrew U+05B1 (hataf segol). See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_259 and https://www.unicode.org/mail-arch/unicode-ml/y2012-m05/0123.html .Jan Řrřola Kadlechttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12143918995884547616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-31685070453020554692010-06-30T16:02:53.123+01:002010-06-30T16:02:53.123+01:00The note in Unicode NamesList.txt file about Urali...The note in Unicode NamesList.txt file about Uralicist usage seems to apply to the letter "A WITH DOT ABOVE", not to "E WITH CEDILLA".<br />Letter <i>e</i> has two pronunciations in Latvian language: "narrow" [ɛ] and "wide" [æ]. E with cedilla <i>ȩ</i>, while not a part of the standard Latvian orthography, is sometimes used in dictionaries and learning books to indicate the "wide" pronunciation. Long [æ:] sound is written as e with cedilla and macron: ȩ̄. This letter doesn't seem to be available precomposed in Unicode. (The accent in <i>ȩ</i> is a real cedilla, not a comma as in Latvian palatalized consonants ķ, ļ, ņ, ŗ.)<br />The letter <i>ȩ</i> is also used in the Latvian phonetic alphabet, an extended version of standard Latvian alphabet used by local linguists. There it can take some other accents to indicate syllable tone: ȩ̃, ȩ̂, ȩ̀.<br />In Unicode, <i>ȩ</i> is followed by some letters for Livonian, a near-extinct Finno-Ugric language spoken in Latvia. I don't know whether this sequence is accidental or not.<br />The letter <i>ḝ</i> is a mystery to me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-79188756057162480652010-06-09T21:57:25.533+01:002010-06-09T21:57:25.533+01:00Doh! Found my own solution. After some more poki...Doh! Found my own solution. After some more poking around, I was pointed to a font issue -- Arial Unicode MS seems to have the proper glyphs for 'combining ogonek', among others, allowing me to use i + acute + combining ogonek to get around the tittle problem. Hope this helps someone else.Eiríkrhttp://www.example.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-56075707492238552832010-06-09T21:36:58.928+01:002010-06-09T21:36:58.928+01:00I'm currently studying Navajo, and the diacrit...I'm currently studying Navajo, and the diacritics in use for this language are causing some fun problems with various applications. Navajo has tones, with low unmarked and high marked with the acute accent. Navajo also distinguishes between oral and nasal vowels, with oral unmarked and nasal marked with the ogonek. The combinations Vowel + Acute + Ogonek do not seem to exist anywhere as distinct code points, and the combining diacritics don't always work properly -- for instance, MS Office doesn't recognize U+0328 'combining ogonek', inserting a '2' instead; meanwhile, using vowel + ogonek + combining acute does funny things with the letter 'i' due to the tittle (dot). <... sigh ...>Eiríkrhttp://www.example.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-74149886101355565192010-05-11T07:01:12.004+01:002010-05-11T07:01:12.004+01:00What is this all about? Is this file the repositor...What is this all about? Is this file the repository of such usage information as Unicode has!red beddinghttp://www.beddinghut.co.uk/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-6507163089229288362010-05-01T17:48:22.987+01:002010-05-01T17:48:22.987+01:00Therefore, if an accented Latin letter is encoded ...<i>Therefore, if an accented Latin letter is encoded in Unicode, it means that there is some language or transcription system out there that uses it</i><br /><br />Unfortunately not. In earlier versions of Unicode, Turkish s-cedilla and Romanian s-comma and t-comma were unified as s-cedilla and t-cedilla (a state of affairs inherited from ISO 8859-2). When this overunification was undone by adding proper s-comma and t-comma characters, t-cedilla became useless, as no language or transcription system uses such a thing. WP says that it was once proposed for use in learned French words ending in <i>-tion, -tial</i> where orthographic <i>t</i> is pronounced /s/, but never adopted.John Cowanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452247999156925669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-14715459963779154362010-04-30T23:44:17.559+01:002010-04-30T23:44:17.559+01:00I'm using Linux. My default keyboard layout ha...I'm using Linux. My default keyboard layout has ö as AltGr+[, followed by a lower-case "o". This makes äëïöüẅÿ trivially easy. Better still, AltGr+;'# followed by vowels offers acute, circumflex, and grave accents respectively. And a cedilla is on AltGr+=. There are other accents on other keys (for instance AltGr+@ gives a haček), but I don't tend to use them much.James Dowdenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11058389162481491681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-80974166315445808802010-04-27T01:09:53.522+01:002010-04-27T01:09:53.522+01:00I'm sure most posters of this blog will know t...I'm sure most posters of this blog will know this, but for those who don't, the International Keyboard Layout ( http://support.microsoft.com/kb/306560 ) is a god-send for those who type in more than one language and don't want to Alt-Shift multiple times every time they begin to type.<br />It allows you to type diacritics easily:<br />'then vowel for á é í ó ú<br />" then vowel for ä ë ï ö ü<br />` then vowel for à è ì ò ù<br />^ then vowel for â ê î ô û<br />~ then letter for ã õ ñ<br />and Alt+letter for many more. äåé®®þüúüúíóöáßððæ©©ñµç<br />You just have to remember that to type one of the special characters ' " ^ ` ~ you have to press Space Bar afterwards.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06764239527844866487noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-8068111671255377632010-04-21T15:18:08.027+01:002010-04-21T15:18:08.027+01:00And the umlaut has always been Alt+u, V on my PCs ...And the umlaut has always been Alt+u, V on my PCs too. I was used to Macs from the time they were invented, and it was grievous to have to accept in due course that transferring to the death-dealing PC was inevitable. Ctrl+(Shift+):, V was the least of my annoyances, but I immediately set up the key combination Alt+u, V to mimic the Mac. In fact I considered most of the key combs native to Word to be rubbish. It's always worth setting up your own less fussy or more intuitive ones (until you have to use someone else's computer).mallambhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07086916400059545681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-75963943188792500132010-04-20T23:00:51.543+01:002010-04-20T23:00:51.543+01:00Yes, and ö on a Mac has always been option-u, o. M...Yes, and ö on a Mac has always been option-u, o. My previous example was merely at the beginning of a sentence.AJDhttp://ling.upenn.edu/~dinkinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-67494029831396717522010-04-20T22:51:09.380+01:002010-04-20T22:51:09.380+01:00Thank you for the instructions on how to type ö. ...Thank you for the instructions on how to type ö. I wasn't aware that one could do this.Bill Waldermannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-72320128253696371132010-04-20T21:35:12.708+01:002010-04-20T21:35:12.708+01:00Professor Wells & Jongseong: Thank you very mu...Professor Wells & Jongseong: Thank you very much :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-34385663289071284282010-04-20T21:22:34.959+01:002010-04-20T21:22:34.959+01:00The way I've heard it, the Latin 'ae' ...The way I've heard it, the Latin 'ae' that turned into a monophthong and later merged with 'e' was written with the 'e caudata', which looks like ę, in Mediaeval Latin. In fact, the standard explanation seems to be that Polish ogonek came from the 'e caudata'. I hadn't heard about the 'e cedilla' being used for this purpose.<br /><br />One other thing: Unicode doesn't encode all letter-accent combinations. The theory is that all such combinations can be encoded with the base letter (like U+0065 'latin small letter e') and the combining accent (like U+0328 'combining ogonek'). In practice, of course, most such combinations are encoded in Unicode as a single character (like U+0119 'latin small letter e with ogonek'), because of compatibility issues with existing code standards which generally encoded accented letters as single characters. The vast majority of Unicode-compliant text encodes accented letters as single characters where available.<br /><br />Therefore, if an accented Latin letter is encoded in Unicode, it means that there is some language or transcription system out there that uses it, but the converse is not true. There are accented letters in use in some orthographies which can only be encoded as the base letter plus combining diacritic in Unicode and not as a single character, because they were obscure enough not to be included in pre-Unicode code standards.Jongseonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12558136756392729306noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-16373115112010158452010-04-20T20:53:22.712+01:002010-04-20T20:53:22.712+01:00JC: LOLJC: LOLAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-91444485042467374312010-04-20T20:14:13.526+01:002010-04-20T20:14:13.526+01:00John Cowan: thanks for this useful info.
AJD: we&#...John Cowan: thanks for this useful info.<br />AJD: we're not talking about Ö but about ö.<br />Anon: no.John Wellshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13684304410735867148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-19296342127346055862010-04-20T19:08:41.774+01:002010-04-20T19:08:41.774+01:00I'm a Pole and today's entry prompted me t...I'm a Pole and today's entry prompted me to do some basic research (that is, Wikipedia) on the ogonek (which, as English wiki aptly informs us, means "a little tail"). Interestingly, Polish wiki says that the letter ę was used also in Latin spelling from the 12th century onwards. In Polish, the letter ę corresponds to the nasal vowel /ɛ̃/. Would anybody be so kind as to answer whether this was also the case in Medieval Latin?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-65477776370161083932010-04-20T18:13:35.390+01:002010-04-20T18:13:35.390+01:00Ö on a Mac has always been option-u, O.Ö on a Mac has always been option-u, O.AJDhttp://ling.upenn.edu/~dinkinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-20013473644881757512010-04-20T15:18:17.955+01:002010-04-20T15:18:17.955+01:00The Unicode NamesList file says that E WITH CEDILL...The Unicode <a href="http://www.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/NamesList.txt" rel="nofollow">NamesList</a> file says that E WITH CEDILLA is used by Uralicists, which means it's part of the Uralicist (aka Finno-Ugric) Phonetic Alphabet. This file is the repository of such usage information as Unicode has. Unfortunately, I can't find an online explanation of (F)UPA in English.<br /><br />As for the Latin Extended Additional block, it's the result of an old compromise. Originally, Unicode and ISO 10646 were to be separate standards. After a <i>lot</i> of work, Unicode 1.0 and the Draft International Standard (DIS) were merged to produce Unicode 1.1, which was also the initial version of ISO 10146 and included all the characters present in either standard. This block contains the Latin letters that the DIS (which was at that stage basically a list of names without explanations) contained but Unicode 1.0 did not, and for which the provenance is basically unknown. In a few cases, NamesList has explanations added after the fact, but 1E1D is not one of those cases.John Cowanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452247999156925669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-68791480492027085842010-04-20T13:23:41.070+01:002010-04-20T13:23:41.070+01:00Multiple answers on Google, with "e cedilla&q...Multiple answers on Google, with "e cedilla" OR "e cedille". It seems, it abbreviates (medieval) Latin -ae, for instance. ȩ, what would we do without it?de cuuphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16498514660234870861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-5180580485672594522010-04-20T12:51:06.048+01:002010-04-20T12:51:06.048+01:00Alt+four digits is hardly intuitive. AllChars work...Alt+four digits is hardly intuitive. <a href="http://allchars.zwolnet.com/" rel="nofollow">AllChars</a> works well for Windows (except Vista and 7) as a Unix/Mac style compose key.Stewart C. Russellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14196891814799297592noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-859673489297259432010-04-20T12:20:06.842+01:002010-04-20T12:20:06.842+01:00FWIW, the eki.ee Letter Database doesn't know ...FWIW, the eki.ee Letter Database doesn't know of any languages using e with cedilla: http://www.eki.ee/letter/chardata.cgi?search=e+with+cedillaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-22274914473472569242010-04-20T10:42:49.128+01:002010-04-20T10:42:49.128+01:00Or ctrl-c, ctrl-v once the character has already b...Or ctrl-c, ctrl-v once the character has already been used by others.Jens Knudsen (Sili)https://www.blogger.com/profile/14078875730565068352noreply@blogger.com