tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post9207516429340091336..comments2024-03-17T09:14:13.950+00:00Comments on John Wells’s phonetic blog: ineptness in RomeJohn Wellshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13684304410735867148noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-78816151337583591902020-08-24T15:34:54.192+01:002020-08-24T15:34:54.192+01:00HP officejet 5255 printer Setup the board printer ...<a href="https://allitexpert.com/blog/setup-hp-officejet-5255-all-in-one-printer/" rel="nofollow">HP officejet 5255 printer Setup</a> the board printer for the two windows and macintosh gadgets. Dial HP Support Number to get total direction from prepared specialists.augustwalkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04569162127148957693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-52131263343656540712020-06-12T09:51:59.254+01:002020-06-12T09:51:59.254+01:00Haloo pak^^
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- ...Had I been the translator, I would have gone :<br /><br />- "The new Pope is now saying the Lord's Prayer." And kept silent until the end of the prayer.<br /><br />I am not a Catholic, but I can recognise a prayer when I hear one.<br />But that might be against the training received by translators.<br />Does anybody know?Vincent Parbellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04605133261070453214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-67356158198326971262013-03-18T07:54:48.274+00:002013-03-18T07:54:48.274+00:00People on here might like to read this article of ...People on here might like to read this article of mine:<br /><br />http://alex-ateachersthoughts.blogspot.it/2013/03/pope-francis-prayers.htmlAlex Rotatorihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15221253493502707131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-77174505806239100302013-03-16T15:37:06.524+00:002013-03-16T15:37:06.524+00:00Forgot to sign with my full name...
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Armando d...Forgot to sign with my full name...<br /><br />-- <br />Armando di Matteoarmy1987https://www.blogger.com/profile/01166052755101226806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-28899257841684610772013-03-16T13:36:44.035+00:002013-03-16T13:36:44.035+00:00It would seem that the same interpreter has been u...It would seem that the same interpreter has been used for the Pope's <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21812545" rel="nofollow">address this morning</a>. Noticeably he referred to "Francesco Saverio", the Italian version of who in English is called Francis Xavier (<b>ˈfrɑːnsɪs ˈzeɪviə</b>).Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17296034779667624202noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-2533321139575700912013-03-16T12:57:06.531+00:002013-03-16T12:57:06.531+00:00The interpreter should have known the English vers...<i>The interpreter should have known the English version of them.</i><br /><br />Why? Of all the foreign students of the English language, how many of them do you think know the prayer by heart? Why on earth would they need to know it?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-50521314588833373292013-03-15T21:17:37.426+00:002013-03-15T21:17:37.426+00:00The first reply (by Thomas Widmann) mentioned '...<i>The first reply (by Thomas Widmann) mentioned 'simple Latin', </i><br /><br />This also coloured any re-reading of John's post. This referred to <i>'Latin'</i>, but actually in the context of the Latin form of one word: the name Francis.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-17439931998714625582013-03-15T21:16:15.158+00:002013-03-15T21:16:15.158+00:00You are absolutely right, of course! The only Lati...You are absolutely right, of course! The only Latin spoken was before Pope Francis came out onto the balcony. Interpreters always take a few essentials along to any assignment - notepad, pen or pencil and, nowadays, an iPad or similar. A well-prepared and properly equipped professional can Google the English version of such well-known prayers in seconds. I agree with you, Alex - he should have known (or known how to access) the English texts.Jacquiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00065117251986833431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-86779492047369700522013-03-15T21:13:13.014+00:002013-03-15T21:13:13.014+00:00Alex
The interpreter should have known the Englis...Alex<br /><br /><i>The interpreter should have known the English version of them</i><br /><br />Why?<br /><br />OK, it would have been easier for him and better for his listeners, but that's different from an obligation.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-74022363030024423302013-03-15T21:08:06.931+00:002013-03-15T21:08:06.931+00:00Alex
How strange!
The first reply (by Thomas Wi...Alex<br /><br />How strange! <br /><br />The first reply (by Thomas Widmann) mentioned <i>'simple Latin'</i>, so that's what I was expecting to hear when I later found the clip and played it.<br /><br />The Lord's Prayer was obscured from the start by what the interpreter was saying. Then there was a pause in which <i>Ave Maria</i> could clearly be heard, so I assumed that the rest of it was in Latin.<br /><br />So he did <i>'utter a single word in Latin'</i>. The word was <i>ave</i>.<br /><br />I can normally tell the difference between Latin and Italian, but once I read Thomas's post, that part of my brain was switched off.<br /><br />Thomas's post was a day and a half ago, and Latin has been mentioned several times since by me and others. I wonder why you were the first to correct us.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-3014477734544262222013-03-15T20:53:43.786+00:002013-03-15T20:53:43.786+00:00army1987
Unfortunately, Let's pray for him is...army1987<br /><br />Unfortunately, <i>Let's pray for him</i> is different from the formula <i>Let us pray</i>. A small difference, but I for one was thrown completely.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-91317209961096921152013-03-15T20:11:05.884+00:002013-03-15T20:11:05.884+00:00I suspect the interpreter had heard the English ve...I suspect the interpreter had heard the English version of the prayers once or twice before (though he couldn't remember them by heart), as what he said wasn't an exact translation of the Italian versions either.army1987https://www.blogger.com/profile/01166052755101226806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-18307193726766686432013-03-15T20:07:26.569+00:002013-03-15T20:07:26.569+00:00Well, the interpreter had correctly translated the...Well, the interpreter had correctly translated the “Let's pray ...” part before the prayers themselves.<br /><br />-- <br />Armando di Matteoarmy1987https://www.blogger.com/profile/01166052755101226806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-8998038533398888972013-03-15T18:55:58.051+00:002013-03-15T18:55:58.051+00:00The Pope didn't utter a single word in Latin! ...The Pope didn't utter a single word in Latin! The Lord's Prayer and the Hail Mary were both in Italian. The interpreter should have known the English version of them.Alex Rotatorihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15221253493502707131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-68405571340177873802013-03-15T17:43:22.871+00:002013-03-15T17:43:22.871+00:00Ellen
Of course an interpreter would know that th...Ellen<br /><br />Of course an interpreter would know that the Pope would be able to speak Latin to small groups of people within the Vatican. It was less predictable that he would speak Latin to millions of lay people in St Peter's Square and over world-wide media.<br /><br />Ironically, the interpreter <b>did</b> understand the Latin, and it was his undoing — as was his rather good English pronunciation. If only he'd ignored the Latin and spoken with a more obviously foreign accent, he wouldn't have upset so many viewers.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-75809556983193437872013-03-15T16:20:54.615+00:002013-03-15T16:20:54.615+00:00Useful multilingual resources for anyone interpret...Useful multilingual resources for anyone interpreting in or for the Vatican, where, as Ellen Kozisek rightly points out, Latin is the official language in which the new Pope can be confident that his flock worldwide will understand him as he leads them in the Lord's Prayer: <br /><br /><br />The Order of Mass, bilingual versions combining Spanish with 14 other languages<br />http://www.misas.org/docs/ordinario-idiomas<br /><br />The Bible, bilingual versions in several languages<br />http://www.transcripture.com/<br />Jacquiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00065117251986833431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-82257458211201512872013-03-15T15:54:12.804+00:002013-03-15T15:54:12.804+00:00I think the problem on this occasion was not that ...I think the problem on this occasion was not that the interpreter was not a native English speaker. A slight accent is no obstacle to understanding. The problem was that he didn't know the right words of those two prayers in English. He said something approximate,which in fact translated the Latin words he was hearing, but (judging by the tweets and e-mails and newspaper headlines) the English-speaking audience expected the old familiar formula. and nothing else would do. It was more of a documentation disaster than anything else. Jacquiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00065117251986833431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-85826131985231763912013-03-15T15:40:30.469+00:002013-03-15T15:40:30.469+00:00David,
A professional interpreter knows what the ...David,<br /><br />A professional interpreter knows what the situation is likely to demand of him or her, and an interpreter hired to convey the first public words of a newly elected Pope should not be surprised at hearing the two prayers in question. Nobody would expect such a level of preparedness of an interpreter - except the interpreter him/herself.<br /><br />As for monstrous expectations,I'd be delighted to welcome you to an end-of-year Master's class so that you can see for yourself what properly trained, pre-professional interpreters of a very high standard can achieve. The standard you describe as ridiculous is the precisely the one they aspire to. The best of them don't fall short of it.<br /><br />The Sky News interpreter did a reasonable job, as did France 24. I e-mailed the BBC because they have some responsibility for the quality of the interpreting service they provide for their viewers. <br /><br />Jacquiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00065117251986833431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-59586092282042954712013-03-15T15:22:15.617+00:002013-03-15T15:22:15.617+00:00Not predictable that the new Pope would speak in L...Not predictable that the new Pope would speak in Latin? Seems to me it's a reasonably good guess that he might. It's the language of the church. I know that in many things English serves as the language business is done in between people of different nationalities, but in the Catholic Church, it's Latin.Ellen Kozisekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16856539181411664278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-1125253839587868742013-03-15T11:12:17.243+00:002013-03-15T11:12:17.243+00:00Michael
That explains a lot.
However, it's s...Michael<br /><br />That explains a lot.<br /><br />However, it's slowly dawned on me that all of us, myself included, have misdiagnosed the problem.<br /><br />The first time I viewed and listened to the item, I understood the Pope to be <b>quoting</b> the prayers. It was, I think, on my third viewing that I twigged that the Pope and everyone else on the screen were <b>performing</b> the prayers. <br /><br />This places the interpreter in a very different position. Ideally, he should have joined in. That was impossible because he didn't know a conventional English version of either prayer — or, indeed, any version at all. He should have done one of three things:<br />• say something like <i>The Holy Father is leading us in prayer</i><br />• say nothing at all<br />• join in the Latin prayers<br /><br />Catholic viewers no doubt recognised, as I failed to recognise, that the prayers were being performed. That explains extreme reactions such as that in the Mail. But they seem not to have recognised that it was the interpreter's job <b>to make us understand what was happening</b>. Getting the translation right was secondary.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-1694097005113781242013-03-15T05:42:07.253+00:002013-03-15T05:42:07.253+00:00Drat it, my profile doesn't show my full name....Drat it, my profile doesn't show my full name. Michael at 05:37 is me. <br /><br />Michael NashMichaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07346069517850565739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-86383478145089572752013-03-15T05:37:43.967+00:002013-03-15T05:37:43.967+00:00One of the BBC presenters stated, after some woefu...One of the BBC presenters stated, after some woefully dreary camera work, that the feed was supplied by the Vatican. That suggests, but does not confirm, that the poor sod of an interpreter who got lumbered with the Lord's Prayer, was also supplied by the Vatican. Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07346069517850565739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-82047461189205733122013-03-14T23:09:22.032+00:002013-03-14T23:09:22.032+00:00Jacquie
The (probably Italian) interpreter's ...Jacquie<br /><br /><i>The (probably Italian) interpreter's chief failing was his unfamiliarity with the standard text of the Lord's Prayer and the Hail Mary in English.</i><br /><br />I consider it monstrously unfair to expect any interpreter to have such familiarity. OK if it had been a native English-speaking interpreter, but it wasn't.<br /><br /><i>The interpreter was woefully under-prepared </i> <br /><br />Monstrously unfair again. The interpreter couldn't possibly prepare for the unforeseeable words of an unforeseeable speaker.<br /><br /><i>As an interpreter and teacher interpreting at the Autonomous University of Barcelona, I am confident that each and every one of my Spanish postgraduate interpreting students would have done a much better job.</i><br /><br />My wife used to teach interpreting, and I know that students can reach very high standards. But the standard you claim for your students is one I find ridiculous. It was totally impossible for the interpreter to <br /><br /><i>research the speaker and his subject (including likely references)</i>. <br /><br />All he could possibly know was that the new Pope was likely to talk about God — probably in Italian, but maybe in unidiomatic foreign Italian. That the new Pope would also speak in Latin was not at all predictable.<br /><br />And why did you write to the BBC? I still think it could have been outsourced from a Vatican source.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-377103124456226005.post-45095469097382054632013-03-14T18:27:42.811+00:002013-03-14T18:27:42.811+00:00"Judged by normal standards of simultaneous i..."Judged by normal standards of simultaneous interpreting, the performance was pretty good. By normal standards of simultaneous interpreting into a foreign language it was extremely good." Sorry, but I couldn't disagree more. I heard the BBC interpreter and lost no time e-mailing a comment to the BBC News website. The (probably Italian) interpreter's chief failing was his unfamiliarity with the standard text of the Lord's Prayer and the Hail Mary in English. While we all know that there is no single correct translation of any sentence, much less of a prayer or a poem,from one language into another, in the case of a core text such as those that Pope Francis (not surprisingly)uttered yesterday evening before the crowd in St Peter's square, nothing but the standard version will do. The interpreter was woefully under-prepared in the sense of not having done the necessary documentation, for the task. As an interpreter and teacher interpreting at the Autonomous University of Barcelona, I am confident that each and every one of my Spanish postgraduate interpreting students would have done a much better job.<br /><br />The truly brilliant simultaneous interpretations are not the result of the interpreter having been given the script in advance. They happen when a trained interpreter, having researched the speaker and his subject (including any likely references), is then free to render the speech into his/her own language. <br />Jacquiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00065117251986833431noreply@blogger.com