Agreed. To have free healthcare of a high standard (per earlier blog entry), but then to have only expensive, slow, unreliable wifi does seem to be "spoiling the ship for a halfpennyworth of tar", when considering that providing free, fast, reliable wifi would have enormous benefits to patients and cost a very small fraction of what the healthcare does.
I am going to write to the Queen to tell her that the champions of her language must be given unfettered access to the Internet wherever they are. Please do not suspend the blog, you might never return.
I hope that you, Professor Wells, take some time out to recover.
In the meantime, we can be entertained by a new video from the young Londoner who featured on this blog on 4th October 2010. This is funny. I'm sure that we'll all notice a few problems though.
I've been reading your work for almost longer than I can remember (the 1970s in fact) and I'm looking forward to reading more of your work and thoughts when you get home. Get well soon, John.
I have prepared a list of words in the NORTH and FORCE lexical sets, which is for the moment posted on a recent Language Hat post in the comments (currently at the bottom of the page). While we all wait for John's return, I'd appreciate it if any of you from Scotland, Ireland, Eastern New England, the American South, or the Caribbean (or who speak AAVE) could look at these words and see if any are obviously in the wrong group. Thanks.
Wow, that's fantastic. I'm exited to see that someone else is also interested in the HORSE-FORCE merger. It's been my wish for a long time to hear a speaker of a rhotic Northern American accent (preferably Mid-Western) to demonstrate the difference. There still must be millions of such speakers who make the distinction, but I've never heard a good recording.
I found a lot of mistakes in your list, something must have gone wrong when you were exporting it.
You put the word "force" in the NORTH group.
I checked the words that looked to me to be in the wrong category (for AmE) in PDAE, but found so many mistakes that I got tired with the checking. Here are the words that are definitely NORTH not FORCE and are in your FORCE list:
abnormal, acorn, chord, cohort, conform, consortium, cord, cornice, cuspidor, dormitory (-tory is FORCE, of course, but that's generally true), enormous, forgather, forgo, format, formula, formidable, forswear, forte (music), fortissimo, fortitude, fortuitous, harpsichord, hormone, inordinate.
"forge" can be either NORTH of FORCE among those who make a distinction.
It also has to be kept in mind that the different non-merging accents don't always agree. For example, "important" is FORCE in BrE, but NORTH in AmE.
Here is a better list I compiled based on Kenyon's American Pronunciation and Jones's Outline. I tried to exclude all words that waver or belong to different groups in different regional standards.
According to PDAE, interestingly, it is in AmE if it's monosyllabic ("tord"), but the pre-merged disyllabic pronunciation can only be /təˈwɔrd/ (NORTH).
A bit of a mishmash, but basically northern English, of the type which splits FOOT and STRUT but not TRAP and BATH. I'm from an area where the distinction is very obvious in the traditional dialect but seems to be dying out; I wouldn't entirely trust my judgement on which words have which vowel, though it's generally fairly close to your list (and vp's rule).
Although I have the FORCE-NORTH merger, I live near Boston and listen to public radio, and I've been trying to figure out whether org (as in url.org) has the FORCE or NORTH vowel in New England. Does anybody have an answer?
Okay, here's my revised AHD4 list, verified against Levente's list above and against the information in Wikipedia. Corrections are still welcome, of course — AHD4 is not infallible.
I'd be interested to know whether anyone in England still make a three-way distinction NORTH-FORCE-CURE. They must be very thin on the ground nowadays.
It's interesting to know that "sort" is a NORTH word. In the traditional dialect of my area, it is a CURE word. I say it with my NORTH/FORCE though.
I haven't read those references but as a native of Northern Ireland who's had the NORTH-FORCE distinction since birth, I have to agree with Levente's corrections - abnormal, acorn etc. are definitely NORTH for me, as I think for everyone in my hometown. So is pianoforte (and forte).
There are also lots of FORCE words in JC's NORTH list: adorn, forceps (for me anyway), porcine, porcupine and probably others.
Porcine and porcupine are both FORCE for me, presumably influenced by pork. However, porcine is a scientific word so it may have a more traditional, learned pronunciation with NORTH, which would be more regular given the etymology.
And yes, dot org definitely has NORTH because it's short for organisation, which is NORTH.
Get well soon, sir. My internet is less precise and pedantic without you. I wanted you to tear up my new boss for this interview on the BBC's Learning English site. I do admire his neck though.
A speedy recovery, Dr Wells. This is one of my all time favourite blogs and I only spell favourite that way for your benefit so don't go and ruin it by quitting.
Oh dear! I thought for a moment he was going to make a sensible point about contrasting law and lore. But no, it just sounds like he's heard non-rhotic speakers using intrusive R and hasn't given any thought to when they do so.
*untuk deposit pulsa kami menerima provider -XL -Telkomsel
untuk bonus yang kami miliki kami memiliki *bonus cashback 0,5% *bunus refferal 20% *bonus gebiar bulanan (N-max,samsung Note 10+,Iphone xr 64G,camera go pro 7hero,Apple airpods 2 ,dan freechips)
Daftar Langsung Di:
SENTANAPOKER
Kontak Kami;
WA : +855 9647 76509 Line : SentanaPoker Wechat : SentanaPokerLivechat Sentanapoker
Proses deposit dan withdraw tercepat bisa anda rasakan jika bermain di Sentanapoker. So… ? tunggu apa lagi ? Mari bergabung dengan kami. Pelayanan CS yang ramah dan Proffesional dan pastinya sangat aman juga bisa anda dapatkan di Sentanapoker.
Rest well, and we'll all look forward to your safe return.
ReplyDeleteYes we will! Hoping to read you soon...!
ReplyDeleteHow awful that they charge the Wi-Fi! Or at least, that they charge it so much! I am shocked.
ReplyDeleteI'm sad that I won't be reading your posts regularly, but I understand. Must find something else to read in the morning.
I wish you a quick recovery!
Agreed. To have free healthcare of a high standard (per earlier blog entry), but then to have only expensive, slow, unreliable wifi does seem to be "spoiling the ship for a halfpennyworth of tar", when considering that providing free, fast, reliable wifi would have enormous benefits to patients and cost a very small fraction of what the healthcare does.
DeleteGet well soon!
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI am going to write to the Queen to tell her that the champions of her language must be given unfettered access to the Internet wherever they are. Please do not suspend the blog, you might never return.
ReplyDeleteGood forbettering, John.
ReplyDeleteI hope that you, Professor Wells, take some time out to recover.
ReplyDeleteIn the meantime, we can be entertained by a new video from the young Londoner who featured on this blog on 4th October 2010. This is funny. I'm sure that we'll all notice a few problems though.
Thanks for posting this :)
DeleteI'll be waiting, my dear.
ReplyDeleteThere will be a phonetic void in our mornings until you resume. Get well soon.
ReplyDeleteand a---non-just-glottal---stop...
DeleteGet well soon!
ReplyDeleteTake care. Will miss you.
ReplyDelete-Julie
Get well soon!
ReplyDeleteget well soon!
ReplyDeleteHere's another lurker wishing you a good bettering.
ReplyDeleteJen ankoraŭ unu deziro por rapida resaniĝo kaj feliĉa reveno al tiu ĉi estimata blogo.
ReplyDelete'The Lord bless you and keep you ...'
ReplyDeleteI've been reading your work for almost longer than I can remember (the 1970s in fact) and I'm looking forward to reading more of your work and thoughts when you get home. Get well soon, John.
ReplyDeleteGet well soon, and best wishes.
ReplyDeleteGet well soon, and we eagerly anticipate your return!
ReplyDeleteI have prepared a list of words in the NORTH and FORCE lexical sets, which is for the moment posted on a recent Language Hat post in the comments (currently at the bottom of the page). While we all wait for John's return, I'd appreciate it if any of you from Scotland, Ireland, Eastern New England, the American South, or the Caribbean (or who speak AAVE) could look at these words and see if any are obviously in the wrong group. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteWow, that's fantastic. I'm exited to see that someone else is also interested in the HORSE-FORCE merger. It's been my wish for a long time to hear a speaker of a rhotic Northern American accent (preferably Mid-Western) to demonstrate the difference. There still must be millions of such speakers who make the distinction, but I've never heard a good recording.
DeleteI found a lot of mistakes in your list, something must have gone wrong when you were exporting it.
DeleteYou put the word "force" in the NORTH group.
I checked the words that looked to me to be in the wrong category (for AmE) in PDAE, but found so many mistakes that I got tired with the checking. Here are the words that are definitely NORTH not FORCE and are in your FORCE list:
abnormal, acorn, chord, cohort, conform, consortium, cord, cornice, cuspidor, dormitory (-tory is FORCE, of course, but that's generally true), enormous, forgather, forgo, format, formula, formidable, forswear, forte (music), fortissimo, fortitude, fortuitous, harpsichord, hormone, inordinate.
"forge" can be either NORTH of FORCE among those who make a distinction.
It also has to be kept in mind that the different non-merging accents don't always agree. For example, "important" is FORCE in BrE, but NORTH in AmE.
Here is a better list I compiled based on Kenyon's American Pronunciation and Jones's Outline. I tried to exclude all words that waver or belong to different groups in different regional standards.
DeleteNORTH:
accord, adorn, border, born, chord, cord, cork, corn, corpse, corse, dormer, drawer, exhort, for, forfeit, fork, form, fortify, fortune, forty, forward, George, Gordon, gorge, gorse, horn, horse, lord, morn, morning, mortar, nor, normal, north, or, order, quart, record, reform, remorse, resort, scorn, short, snort, sort, stork, storm, swarm, torch, war, warn, York.
FORCE:
adore, afford, Azores, before, boar, board, boarder, bore, borne, chore, coarse, core, course, court, courtier, deport, divorce, door, export, import, floor, force, ford, fore, fort, forth, four, fourteen, fourth, glory, gore, hoard, hoarse, hoary, horde, ignore, implore, lore, more, mourn, Nore, oar, ore, porch, pore, pork, porous, port, pour, proportion, resource, restore, roar, score, shore, snore, soar, sore, source, spore, sport, store, story, sword, swore, sworn, tore, torn, toward, wore, worn, yore.
Good minimal pairs are:
border-boarder, born-borne, cord-cored, corse-coarse,course, for-four, horse-hoarse, Laura-Lora, morn-mourn, morning-mourning, or-oar,ore, therefor-therefore, war-wore, warn-worn.
@Levente:
DeleteIt seems that the vast majority of the FORCE (and none of the NORTH words) fall into one of the following categories:
* spelled oVr or orV (where V represents any vowel)
* spelled por
* past participles
Makes it easier for the rest of us to remember what is what :)
BTW are you sure about "toward" being a FORCE word?
According to PDAE, interestingly, it is in AmE if it's monosyllabic ("tord"), but the pre-merged disyllabic pronunciation can only be /təˈwɔrd/ (NORTH).
Deletevp:
ReplyDeleteIt isn't true that no NORTH words fall into these categories. E.g.:
NORTH words spelled por:
porcupine, porn(ography), porpoise
And of course the NORTH word "born" is a past participle.
Good point on the por- NORTH words.
Delete"Born" must originally have been a past participle, but it isn't any more.
Yeah, you're right :) I remembered that "born" and "borne" had an interesting history, but was too lazy to re-read the discussion in Kenyon.
DeleteI have FORCE in "porcupine", presumably from the similarlity to "pork", but NORTH in "porn" and "porpoise".
DeleteJHJ, thanks for your comment. What accent of English do you speak?
DeleteA bit of a mishmash, but basically northern English, of the type which splits FOOT and STRUT but not TRAP and BATH. I'm from an area where the distinction is very obvious in the traditional dialect but seems to be dying out; I wouldn't entirely trust my judgement on which words have which vowel, though it's generally fairly close to your list (and vp's rule).
DeleteAlthough I have the FORCE-NORTH merger, I live near Boston and listen to public radio, and I've been trying to figure out whether org (as in url.org) has the FORCE or NORTH vowel in New England. Does anybody have an answer?
ReplyDeleteYes, something obviously went very wrong with my automated process. I'm going to try again with a different method.
ReplyDeleteAHD4 lists organ and organization as NORTH, and I assume .org would follow.
Okay, here's my revised AHD4 list, verified against Levente's list above and against the information in Wikipedia. Corrections are still welcome, of course — AHD4 is not infallible.
ReplyDeleteNORTH words
abhor abort absorb accord accordion adorn amorphous amortize aorta assorted award
border born
California cantor Capricorn cavort centaur chord chortle churchwarden concord condor conquistador contort cord cordial cordite cordon corduroy corgi cork corm cormorant corn cornea corner cornet corporate corpse corpulent corpus corpuscle corridor corsage corsair corse corset cortege cortex corvette
dinosaur discord distort dormant dormer dormouse dorsal drawer dwarf
endorse escort exhort exorbitant extort
for forceps forfeit fork forlorn form formaldehyde formalin formation Formica formless fornicate forsythia fortify fortnight fortress fortunate fortune forty forward
George Gordon gorge gorgeous gormless gorse guarantor
headquarters horn hornet horse horticulture
immortal important importunate
lessor lord lorgnette
matador morbid mordant morgue Mormon morn morning morpheme morphine morphology morsel mortal mortar mortgage mortician mortify mortise
nor Nordic normal Norman Norse north Norway
or orb orbit orchard orchestra orchid ordeal order ordnance ordure organ organize orgasm orgy ornery orphan orthodox orthography
popcorn porcine porcupine porphyry porpoise
quart quarter quartet
record remorse resort reward
scorch scorn short snorkel snort sorbet sorcerer sordid sorghum sort sortie stork storm sward swarm swarthy
thorn thwart tor torch toreador torment torpid torpor tort tortilla tortoise torture
unlooked-for
vortex
war ward warfare warm warn warp wart wharf
York
FORCE words
abnormal aboard acorn adore afford aforesaid anymore apportion ashore Azores
before boar board boarder Boer bore borne Borneo Bourne
carnivore chloroform chore coarse cohort commodore comport concourse conform consort consortium coordinate core cored cornice corporeal corps course court courtier cuspidor
davenport deplore deport discourse disport divorce door dormitory
encore enormous explore export
fjord floor forbore force ford fore forebode forecast foreclose forefather forefinger forefoot forefront foregather foreground forehand foreleg foreman foremast foremost forenoon forerunner foreshore foreshorten foresight foreskin forestall foretaste foretell forethought foretold forewarn foreword forgather forge forgo format formidable formula forswear fort forth forthright fortissimo fortitude fortuitous four
galore glory gore
harpsichord hoard hoarse hoary horde hormone
ignore implore import inordinate intercourse
lore
mentor metamorphose more mortuary mourn mourning
Nore norm
oar ordain ordinal ordinance ordinary ore ormolu ornament ornate
pianoforte picador pinafore platform porcelain porch pore pork porn porous port portend portent porter porterhouse portfolio portico portion portly portmanteau portrait portray Portugal postmortem pour primordial proportion
quarto quartz
rapport recourse report resource restore roar Roquefort
score scorpion semaphore shore shorn smorgasbord snore soar sophomore sore source spore sport stevedore store story suborn support sword swore sworn sycamore
therefore tore torn tornado torpedo torsion torso tortuous toward troubadour
unicorn uniform uproar
wardrobe wherefore whore wore worn
yore your
AHD4 contradicts other sources
adorn cord form normal order sword
NORTH, not FORCE:
Deleteabnormal, acorn, cohort, conform, consort, consortium, coordinate, cornice, cuspidor, dormitory, format, formidable, formula, forswear, fortissimo, fortitude, fortuitous, harpsichord, hormone, inordinate, mentor, metamorphose, mortuary, norm, ordain, ordinal, ordinance, ordinary, ormolu, ornament, ornate, picador, platform, porn, postmortem, primordial, quarto, quartz, scorpion,
?smorgasbord?, suborn, tornado, torpedo, torsion, torso, tortuous, unicorn, uniform, wardrobe
About the contradictions:
"cord", "form", "normal", "order" are typical examples of very common NORTH words, so if AHD4 says they're FORCE, it's obviously wrong.
"adorn" is also NORTH according to three independent sources (including the online 2009 edition of the AHD).
I'd be interested to know whether anyone in England still make a three-way distinction NORTH-FORCE-CURE. They must be very thin on the ground nowadays.
DeleteIt's interesting to know that "sort" is a NORTH word. In the traditional dialect of my area, it is a CURE word. I say it with my NORTH/FORCE though.
Get well soon, Professor Wells.
ReplyDeleteBeata from Poland
@John Cowan, Levente:
ReplyDeleteI haven't read those references but as a native of Northern Ireland who's had the NORTH-FORCE distinction since birth, I have to agree with Levente's corrections - abnormal, acorn etc. are definitely NORTH for me, as I think for everyone in my hometown. So is pianoforte (and forte).
There are also lots of FORCE words in JC's NORTH list: adorn, forceps (for me anyway), porcine, porcupine and probably others.
Porcine and porcupine are both FORCE for me, presumably influenced by pork. However, porcine is a scientific word so it may have a more traditional, learned pronunciation with NORTH, which would be more regular given the etymology.
And yes, dot org definitely has NORTH because it's short for organisation, which is NORTH.
Get well soon, sir. My internet is less precise and pedantic without you. I wanted you to tear up my new boss for this interview on the BBC's Learning English site. I do admire his neck though.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/learningenglish/language/wordsinthenews/2012/07/120731_witn_learning_irish_english.shtml
A speedy recovery, Dr Wells. This is one of my all time favourite blogs and I only spell favourite that way for your benefit so don't go and ruin it by quitting.
Oh dear! I thought for a moment he was going to make a sensible point about contrasting law and lore. But no, it just sounds like he's heard non-rhotic speakers using intrusive R and hasn't given any thought to when they do so.
DeleteJust letting you know that SIL released the maintenance versions of their fonts and that it would be advisable to download them.
ReplyDeleteThanks, love!
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteHaloo pak^^
ReplyDeleteKami dari SENTANAPOKER ingin menawarkan pak^^
Untuk saat ini kami menerima Deposit Melalui Pulsa ya pak.
*untuk minimal deposit 10ribu
*untuk minimal Withdraw 25ribu
*untuk deposit pulsa kami menerima provider
-XL
-Telkomsel
untuk bonus yang kami miliki kami memiliki
*bonus cashback 0,5%
*bunus refferal 20%
*bonus gebiar bulanan (N-max,samsung Note 10+,Iphone xr 64G,camera go pro 7hero,Apple airpods 2 ,dan freechips)
Daftar Langsung Di:
SENTANAPOKER
Kontak Kami;
WA : +855 9647 76509
Line : SentanaPoker
Wechat : SentanaPokerLivechat Sentanapoker
Proses deposit dan withdraw tercepat bisa anda rasakan jika bermain di Sentanapoker. So… ? tunggu apa lagi ? Mari bergabung dengan kami. Pelayanan CS yang ramah dan Proffesional dan pastinya sangat aman juga bisa anda dapatkan di Sentanapoker.